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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

Infineon MA12070 Class D
Infineon MA12070 Class D
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Old 27th November 2020, 03:50 PM   #151
commstech is offline commstech  Singapore
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Toku,

I understand now. So looks like manually muting the amp during power up and then unmuting it, is the only doable prevention for now.
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Old 27th November 2020, 09:54 PM   #152
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Infineon MA12070 Class D
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniboun View Post
Every time I listen to my playlist on this amp, I get the goosebumps, and I'm serious! I compared this amp to amps that are worth ten times its price! Verdict, this little DrMordor is exceptional in every way! Devouring musicality, incredible sound reproduction across the entire spectrum, bass deeper than my Hypex Ncore, and finally the best for last: an absolutely sublime soundstage !

I am also in the process of getting a new Purifi dual mono amp with a custom Buffer, it will be available by end of December. It will be the best basis to compare, the Purifi do not lie)
We get that you like the TPA3255, I like it too, but this thread is not about that amp. Let’s keep the discussion to the Infineon amp please. If you have comparisons to make between the Infineon and the TPA3255 that’s fine but raving about amp “Y” in amp “X” thread adds no more info to amp “X”.
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Last edited by xrk971; 27th November 2020 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 27th November 2020, 10:05 PM   #153
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commstech View Post
Toku,

I understand now. So looks like manually muting the amp during power up and then unmuting it, is the only doable prevention for now.
If you add a MOSFET between the PSU input and the amp wired as a cap multiplier with a slow ramp up (10sec), you can avoid the turn on thump. The circuit is quite simple (handful of parts under $3) but has a 3v drop. So a 24v supply gives 21v. Using a variable step up DC-DC converter or a variable SMPS can compensate for this by increasing voltage by 3v.

Here is the cap multiplier circuit:

Juma's Easy-Peasy Capacitance Multiplier

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 27th November 2020, 10:21 PM   #154
Onefabis is offline Onefabis  Russian Federation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commstech View Post
Toku,

I understand now. So looks like manually muting the amp during power up and then unmuting it, is the only doable prevention for now.
Yes, that's how Infineon manufacturer guide to start-up procedure in the datasheet (page 30)
Quote:
It is recommended to follow the start-up procedure as described below:
  1. Make sure the all hardware pins are configured correctly: e.g. BTL, Slave Clock mode.
  2. Keep the device in disable and mute: /ENABLE = 1; /MUTE = 0.
  3. Bring up 5V VDD supply and PVDD supply (it does not matter if VDD or PVDD comes up first, provided that the device is held in disable).
  4. Wait for VDD and PVDD to be stable.
  5. CLK must be present before enabling the amplifier.
  6. Enable device: /ENABLE = 0.
  7. Program applicable initialization to registers.
  8. Unmute device: /MUTE = 1.
  9. The device is now in normal operation state
Same with shut-down:
Quote:
It is recommended to follow the start-up procedure as described below:
  1. The device is in normal operation state.
  2. Mute device: /MUTE = 0.
  3. Disable device: /ENABLE = 1.
  4. The device is now power-down state.
  5. Bring down 5V VDD supply and PVDD supply.
  6. The device is now in shut-down state.
Microcontoller (especially for MA12070P version) may help to do the stuff with Enable/Mute pins with described sequence

Last edited by Onefabis; 27th November 2020 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 27th November 2020, 11:58 PM   #155
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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$1 ATTiny86 DIP8 MCU is perfect for this. Can be programmed easily via Arduino interface. It’s kind of annoying that some state of the art amps don’t have this very basic functionality of proper startup/shutdown built in automatically. 10years ago, the TPA3116 did not have this and it was annoying but forgivable. Now, to have a new chip cone out with all these lessons learned and still make people do it with an external MCU is beyond me. There should be a single logic pin that if selected enabled smart soft turn on and off. If you don’t enable it, you can manually do all of this timing yourself with an external MCU.
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Old 28th November 2020, 12:21 AM   #156
Toku is online now Toku  Japan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commstech View Post
Toku,

I understand now. So looks like manually muting the amp during power up and then unmuting it, is the only doable prevention for now.
I immediately challenged how to eliminate pop noise.

As a result, I was able to eliminate the pop noise when the power was turned on by connecting a 100uF/10V or 68uF/10V capacitor between the Mute pin and GND.
Even if you connect a capacitor, the Mute pin will continue to work as before. When using an electrolytic capacitor as the capacitor, connect the + side to the Mute pin.

The principle is to connect the Mute pin to GND by the charging current to the capacitor for about 1 second after the power is turned on.
It's just this very easy method, but the effect is outstanding. It works well even if the power is turned on/off in a short cycle.

Other ideas
The power consumption of this amplifier board when there is no sound is very small and there is almost no heat generation.
Therefore, you can use the Mute pin like power ON/OFF while keeping the DC power supply always connected (Power ON).

I would like to incorporate both methods when licking this amp board in the case.

(Sorry, I'm not good at English. I think it's a strange sentence.)

Last edited by Toku; 28th November 2020 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 28th November 2020, 05:05 AM   #157
Onefabis is offline Onefabis  Russian Federation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
$1 ATTiny86 DIP8 MCU is perfect for this. Can be programmed easily via Arduino interface. It’s kind of annoying that some state of the art amps don’t have this very basic functionality of proper startup/shutdown built in automatically. 10years ago, the TPA3116 did not have this and it was annoying but forgivable. Now, to have a new chip cone out with all these lessons learned and still make people do it with an external MCU is beyond me. There should be a single logic pin that if selected enabled smart soft turn on and off. If you don’t enable it, you can manually do all of this timing yourself with an external MCU.

I think that infineon deal with its i2c interface in two ways: 1. They make it cheaper as a chip without microcontroller under the hood and 2. Give to developer full controll over the initial setup: protecton status (DC, overcurrent, etc.), power mode profile, I2S format, etc. Believe me, you'll not like the sound coming from speakers if ma12070p will start in wrong I2S format For ma12070 it's more safe to run without initial setup, but anyway, it is better to do so

Last edited by Onefabis; 28th November 2020 at 05:14 AM.
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Old 28th November 2020, 10:33 AM   #158
maggusxy is offline maggusxy
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I mean let's stay realistic. I guess the design background of the amplifier was never with the goal to fit best for cheap chinese mini-AMP boards.

For any serious application you have usually at least a small uC for overall system-control. It's so standard today that it is fast uncommon to not have a uC.

So I don't see that as a problem that you definitely need some external control
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Old 28th November 2020, 10:38 AM   #159
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toku View Post
I would like to incorporate both methods when licking this amp board in the case.

(Sorry, I'm not good at English. I think it's a strange sentence.)
It is a strange sentence, but very funny. That the amplifier would look good enough that you'd like to lick it after putting it in a case. Must be a pretty good amplifier!
I think there's not enough "colour" shining through if everyone is trying to write everything in a very neutral way, better to have a bit of diversity. Your English is excellent btw, no need for excuses.

Oh, and good solution for the on/off muting.
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Old 28th November 2020, 03:32 PM   #160
daniboun is offline daniboun  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toku View Post
I finally got to the environment where I could test the two Infineon MA12070 amp boards I bought on Aliexpress the other day, and immediately listened to the sound.

The amp setting is the default BTL 2CH. The power supply uses 26V / 10A. Connect Topping E30 and SMSL M500 to the input source.
The push button type connection terminal used in this machine is very difficult for me with thick fingers.

For the time being, I compared the sound quality while switching between the 3e audio TPA3255 amplifier board and the SMSL SA300, but I don't feel a big difference. The amp gain is lower than the 3e audio unit. Perhaps because of this, the noise when there is no input signal is so quiet that you can hardly feel it even if you attach your ear to the speaker.

As for pop noise when the power is turned on / off, a large pulse noise appears for a moment when the power is turned on. The noise sounds like an electric spark. On the contrary, there is no pop noise when the power is turned off.
I've been testing it 24 hours a day with the power on, and I don't feel the heat when I touch the heatsink. The heat generated by this amp is really low.

Input is unbalanced connection with RCA, R-ch is connected to IN0A-GNG, Lch is connected to IN1A-GND. The unused IN0B and IN1B are directly connected to GND. If IN0B and IN1B are not connected to GND, a large noise will be generated.
Also, when the SMSL M500 is connected to the input, noise is added to the signal and distortion is felt. It is normal when the Topping E30 is connected. Is there a problem with how the inputs are connected? I haven't tried balanced connection yet.
These symptoms were exactly the same for the two units I purchased.
Are you talking about the same MA12070 as mine ,here ?

Module amplificateur 1.0 / 2.0 / 2.1 / 4.0 Class D MA12070 160W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

IF YES : I disagree with you, because I have absolutely 0 pop noise when switching ON / OFF neither any input noises when connected in full balance mode (XLR). Tested it via my Double AK4497 Dac and my LG V30 with internal Quad Dac = 0 issues, no noises, no pop... This amp is absolutely dead silence.
I guess our setup is just different, maybe we are using different SMPS PSU, etc etc

As reminder : I am using it in dual Mono Mode with 2 SMPS PSU (one per module) :
IN0A and IN0B - for the left channel of the mono amp
IN0A and IN0B - for the right channel of the mono amp

Can you share pictures of your finished amp ?

Last edited by daniboun; 28th November 2020 at 03:38 PM.
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