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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

6 Channel TPA3116 + DSP
6 Channel TPA3116 + DSP
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Old 22nd October 2019, 04:23 PM   #11
grahamgraham is offline grahamgraham  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonsgr View Post
can amps like these be used with 105++ db CDs? (110db maybe) or we are asking for trouble?
Compression drivers?

Yes, but I have no idea how this amp functions just yet. With any class-d Chinese design board the gain will be jacked up high leading to noise. With a high sensitivity CD that would be unbearable. So expect to have to do some fiddly soldering with SMD resistors. Balanced inputs would further reduced noise potential but as we have been discussing it depends if it is connected to any other board or if it shares the same PSU.

I wouldn't.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 08:07 PM   #12
Neil Davis is offline Neil Davis  United States
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6 Channel TPA3116 + DSP
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Originally Posted by grahamgraham View Post
Interesting. I had planned on using the Mornsun b0505s-1w type DC-DC isolators for both BT and DSP boards coming from one of the LM2596 boards you used, hopefully that will keep things clean. They will all have their own ground but I am not sure of the power consumption of the boards so I don't know if they will be enough.

Which isolating DC solution are you going to switch to?

Are there any other provisions I should take to help keep noise down?
I've got a 5V to 5V isolated converter on that PCB to power a WiFi module, but the DSP also needs to be isolated. I use the Meanwell modules: SMU02L-05 for 5V to 5V and SPB05B-05 for 24V to 5V. They about about $9 or $10 each from Digikey or Mouser. 3W output is plenty--it's over twice what is needed, even if you have radios (WiFi and/or Bluetooth). You don't need the LM2596 board--just use the SPB05B-05 to go from 24V to 5V.

That Mornsun module should work OK for the DSP, but it does not provide enough current for Bluetooth or WiFi modules.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 09:42 PM   #13
grahamgraham is offline grahamgraham  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Neil Davis View Post
I've got a 5V to 5V isolated converter on that PCB to power a WiFi module, but the DSP also needs to be isolated. I use the Meanwell modules: SMU02L-05 for 5V to 5V and SPB05B-05 for 24V to 5V. They about about $9 or $10 each from Digikey or Mouser. 3W output is plenty--it's over twice what is needed, even if you have radios (WiFi and/or Bluetooth). You don't need the LM2596 board--just use the SPB05B-05 to go from 24V to 5V.

That Mornsun module should work OK for the DSP, but it does not provide enough current for Bluetooth or WiFi modules.
Cheers, man. I already have a step-down board so I think I'll use 5v-5v to keep costs down. Two 1w isolators for each DSP and a 2w for the bluetooth.

Incidentally I used a 1w 5v DC-DC for a csra64215 build and the range was poor. Could this have been the reason?

Seeing as you did not use these amp boards with any anger you may not have bothered but do you think the large capacitor needs to be upgraded?
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Old 23rd October 2019, 11:47 AM   #14
Turbowatch2 is offline Turbowatch2  Germany
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When I put such combination of modules together, I never build it at once with all components.
It is much better to work from the basic amp and PS, if this works as expected and is noise free, you can connect the next stage. In this case the DSP with power supply. If anything is still well and working, you might try your luck by throwing in the Bluetooth module.
This way you will waste no time with trouble shooting, ripping things apart and changing modules and PS. Components that have faults can be terminated in the early stage.

Look at the usual questions you read here at the forum every day: "I took this and that, neatly wired it up and now it makes noise I donīt want. How do I fix it?" Endless threads are dedicated to this!
Some builders always have such problems, some never. This has nothing to do with the price of parts or the "luck" of the designer, it is predetermined by the way you start such a build. If you do one wire wrong, the whole project is spoiled.

Anyway, good luck!
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Old 23rd October 2019, 11:59 AM   #15
Turbowatch2 is offline Turbowatch2  Germany
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If you have two modules that need the same voltage to operate and you fear they could disturb each other, maybe try a very simple solution.
Just separate the outputs by some simple, cheap (1N4001 or 1N4148) diodes. This way the connected modules do not see each other. Usually any module has some kind of buffer for the power supply on board, so you need not add any extra capacitors after the diode. Even better if you can adjust the PS, as you loose .7 volt at the diode.
Sure you can take an isolated PS for each module, but this is not very elegant and might lead to new problems.
The majority of noise problems, in the end boils down to ground issues.

Last edited by Turbowatch2; 23rd October 2019 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 02:40 PM   #16
Neil Davis is offline Neil Davis  United States
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Originally Posted by grahamgraham View Post
Seeing as you did not use these amp boards with any anger you may not have bothered but do you think the large capacitor needs to be upgraded?
No. According to the TDA3116 data sheet, the main filter capacitor should be 100uF or greater for each chip. Using a larger bulk capacitor won't improve the performance, and it may screw up the feedback loop in the switching power supply. If you feel the need to "upgrade" the filtering, add some .001uF and 1uF low ESR ceramic caps as close to the chips as possible, as suggested in section 10.1 of the data sheet.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 03:03 PM   #17
grahamgraham is offline grahamgraham  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbowatch2 View Post
When I put such combination of modules together, I never build it at once with all components.
It is much better to work from the basic amp and PS, if this works as expected and is noise free, you can connect the next stage. In this case the DSP with power supply. If anything is still well and working, you might try your luck by throwing in the Bluetooth module.
This way you will waste no time with trouble shooting, ripping things apart and changing modules and PS. Components that have faults can be terminated in the early stage.

Look at the usual questions you read here at the forum every day: "I took this and that, neatly wired it up and now it makes noise I donīt want. How do I fix it?" Endless threads are dedicated to this!
Some builders always have such problems, some never. This has nothing to do with the price of parts or the "luck" of the designer, it is predetermined by the way you start such a build. If you do one wire wrong, the whole project is spoiled.

Anyway, good luck!
Noted, I will definitely do it like this, I promise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbowatch2 View Post
If you have two modules that need the same voltage to operate and you fear they could disturb each other, maybe try a very simple solution.
Just separate the outputs by some simple, cheap (1N4001 or 1N4148) diodes. This way the connected modules do not see each other. Usually any module has some kind of buffer for the power supply on board, so you need not add any extra capacitors after the diode. Even better if you can adjust the PS, as you loose .7 volt at the diode.
Sure you can take an isolated PS for each module, but this is not very elegant and might lead to new problems.
The majority of noise problems, in the end boils down to ground issues.
Thanks for the tip. Are the diodes on both the voltage and ground lines?

Also, I mentioned this on my 2 x TDA7492 board thread as a possible solution to the noise problem. Would this help or work in that instance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Davis View Post
No. According to the TDA3116 data sheet, the main filter capacitor should be 100uF or greater for each chip. Using a larger bulk capacitor won't improve the performance, and it may screw up the feedback loop in the switching power supply. If you feel the need to "upgrade" the filtering, add some .001uF and 1uF low ESR ceramic caps as close to the chips as possible, as suggested in section 10.1 of the data sheet.
Noted!
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Old 23rd October 2019, 03:41 PM   #18
NMOS is offline NMOS  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbowatch2 View Post
Donīt use Sure DSP. It suckīs.
This one, at close range, is much cheaper. It has all the stuff Sure forgot and you can only add at huge costīs.
ADAU1701-2In4Out | 3e Audio

Two of them should be enough.
Hi

look good

but I need 2 in 4out or 2 in 2out DSP with Rotary encoder + Display


Do you know reliable supplier for this solution ?

I know ALLDSP from our country, but he dont like to sell me

HMAUDIO offer, but I didnt try to import
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Old 23rd October 2019, 05:05 PM   #19
digitaled is offline digitaled
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Noob question. Please dont laugh.😁
Is it possible to make this or any similar type of 5.1 amp a Dolby compatible.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 06:25 PM   #20
Turbowatch2 is offline Turbowatch2  Germany
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@diditaled
You take a Dolby 5.1 pre amp and put it in front of your 6-channel amp. Was that your question? But why build a 5.1 Dolby amp? There are AVR receiver out there...

@grahamgraham The diode only in the + (or, with a dual supply + and -) supply line, no diode with ground.
Yes, this diode thing is used with many D-amps. I think it is more a kind of idiot protection you need if you sell worldwide to people that do not have any basic education, like you expect them in most western countryīs. I have worked with refugees and now have a different view at our (good) school system.
With D-amps it might even reduce the need to synchronize them.

@NMOS
look for PM
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