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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

2 x 800W (8Ohm) on 1200AS2 ICEpower, good idea ?
2 x 800W (8Ohm) on 1200AS2 ICEpower, good idea ?
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Old 21st September 2019, 08:51 AM   #1
suparub is offline suparub
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Question 2 x 800W (8Ohm) on 1200AS2 ICEpower, good idea ?

Hi everyone ! I would like to know if this would be a good idea to power-up 2 mid-range drivers rated a 800W (8Ohm each) plugged in parallel (so 1600W at 4ohms if I don't mistake?) by an IcePower 1200AS2 classD amp.

I have read that the rule of thumb is to use an amp that provides 1.5x more the rated power of a driver, but this is the most powerful DIY solution I have found so far. From what I understand, the Icepower is rated 1400W at 4Ohm when I would need 1600W x 1.5 = 2250W, right ?

So on, my main question is if it would still be OK to use the Icepower in this situation event if under-rated for the drivers needs.
If no, would a workaround by applying a limiter on the DSP in order to protect the amp would be a solution ?
If still no, any other classD DIY module you advice ?

Specs of the 1200AS2 module :
- Output Power per channel 1 % THD+N, 20 Hz – 20 kHz 1200 W (4 Ω)
600 W (8 Ω)
- Output Power per channel 10 % THD+N, 20 Hz – 20 kHz 1400 W (4 Ω)
- Minimum load impedance 2.7 Ω
- Maximum amplifier efficiency –
- Maximum total amp+psu efficiency 80 %
- Supply voltage input 85-264 VAC
- Peak output current 38 A
- Dynamic range 129 dB
- Amplifier maximum output peak voltage per channel 100 V
- Output referenced idle noise (A-weighted) 25 V
- THD+N 1W/1kHz 0.005 %

Thanks

Last edited by suparub; 22nd September 2019 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:38 AM   #2
chermann is offline chermann  Austria
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Location: Vienna
Hi

Welcome to Class D

Please, can you show me (the link) of this wonder of mid range driver which can handle 800W ?
I think this is just for PA and not for your use or?

chris
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:47 AM   #3
suparub is offline suparub
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Hi Chermann and thanks

Here is it : Beyma 15P80Nd - 15" Woofer

This is for PA yes
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Old 23rd September 2019, 08:26 AM   #4
chermann is offline chermann  Austria
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Location: Vienna
Hi

ok a midrange driver is a 15" Woofer...ok
you really want/need a PA amp? ..thd about 0,1 - 0,02 %

Yes if you request that power to that speakers not much DIY amp will handle this. The 800W rms are for sure for a short time and 130db max SPL is F** ing loud...yes in PA its needed.
I have no expereiance in PA but a crest factor in the music give you room to "save" power/energy. so please read this post by FF -
Favorite Threads and Posts in "Class D" Forum
he is well experienced in power supply and this calculation will give you an idea what you really need. normally a 700-1000 W amp will do this. important is the 4R stability - but this is per paper no problem with the icepower. But do not forget at this power level the heat will also be a big topic at Class D amp - idealy a efficiency is about 90% - that means a 1200W generates a dissapation of 120W !! ---- > so cooling = heatsink or fan - redundance fans...etc. is mandatory.


this commercial amp will do - less then 400 euro: (threads are existing here in the forum..)
Behringer NX6000D – Thomann Osterreich

chris
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Old 23rd September 2019, 12:55 PM   #5
Think is offline Think  Netherlands
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Location: Den Haag, Holland
2 x 800W (8Ohm) on 1200AS2 ICEpower, good idea ?
How much power a driver can handle also depends on the box and frequencies played / xmax.

Do you already have the speakers?
As high power 2 way are not the best idea and 15" used as mid is also not the best idea. You will have to cross it over below or at 1kHz or you will lose off axis response.
https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Ficha.../000012802.pdf
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Old 23rd September 2019, 03:38 PM   #6
suparub is offline suparub
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Thank you for your lights and directions chermann and Think !

- chermann I'll look into this and study what you sent here, happy to learn more

Think, I don't have the speakers yet but about to order them. The idea is to build a 2 way PA covering the frequency range from 45Hz to 20Khz with a crossover at 800Hz and using these CP-855Nd compression drivers https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Ficha.../000000664.PDF (in addition of the 2 Beyma 15P80Nd in each a 80L volume box).

as Bass/Midbass, I was also thinking using a pair of 15MC700 (https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Ficha.../000011500.pdf ) instead of the 15P80Nd, as they have an higher Xmax (9.8mm), but when doing the sims on Bassbox, I saw that putting maximum 1000W (8Ohm) on the 15P80Nd will not break them + I'll get extra SPL in the medium for the same power given.

I have already done the sims, happy to share them with you in order to be sure not going in the wrong direction

Last edited by suparub; 23rd September 2019 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:05 PM   #7
Think is offline Think  Netherlands
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Location: Den Haag, Holland
2 x 800W (8Ohm) on 1200AS2 ICEpower, good idea ?
2 Way full range speakers often look a look better in specs and models then they sound in the real world. If you still want them you need to go active because you will not be able to cross over passively because of the impedance peak of the tweeter at 1.4kHz.

To me 2.1 is the way to go as optimal placement locations for woofers are different to the mids/highs (or tops in PA).

2 small tops with tweeter and 1x8" or 2x6" playing 100-200hZ and up and 2x 12/15" bass/subwoofers will easily outperform the 2 way speakers big time in sound quality (especially when the sound levels go up) and bass output. You get double the bass output (6dB) because the sub/bass-woofers stand on, and couple to ,the ground/floor and an other +6dB for every wall you place them at. (they love corners, but make sure your subs roll off (go sealed) as the walls/corners will compensate nicely on the low end, so you end up with a pretty flat response.
But more even more important then output is the sound quality improvement due to correct sub/basswoofer placement.

Have look at this recent topic: Advice for costy high quality & power sound system
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:13 PM   #8
suparub is offline suparub
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Got it Think, really happy to get your input, experience and mind on it.

I was planning to "fix" the flaws of this 2 way system with a fine MiniDSP tuning, but you make me realize it may not be the best solution.

Back to the maths and digging ^^ The idea is to use as less as elements as possible, get the best overall quality / spl as possible, and use the less electric Watts as possible, starting from 40/45Hz

Last edited by suparub; 23rd September 2019 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:43 PM   #9
Think is offline Think  Netherlands
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2 x 800W (8Ohm) on 1200AS2 ICEpower, good idea ?
Good you gave it some thought.
I hereby confess that I once thought that many 12" full range drivers was the way to go. And am so happy I never build those!

Know that the one thing you can't change with DSP is off axis speaker response and that the baffle has a big influence on the off axis response. (round is best)
All sound will we off axis and the on axis measurement you often see in specs are just 1 point exactly in front of a driver/speaker.

For what kind of use is your sound system and what drivers does it have?

Last edited by Think; 23rd September 2019 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 24th September 2019, 08:19 AM   #10
suparub is offline suparub
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got it, this is mainly for outdoor use (2.0 x Pi), DJ system. The aim is to cover up to 500 / 800 people.
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