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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

Small heatsinks on Tpa3116d2
Small heatsinks on Tpa3116d2
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:33 PM   #11
Turbowatch2 is offline Turbowatch2  Germany
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The TPA3116D2 amp will not get you any further. The limit is the 12 volt car voltage (14.4 volt with engine running).
You have to have more volt to get more watt.
High power amps have a voltage increasing circuit inside, which usually generates something like +35V 0V -35V
With this voltage you can drive a "real" amp.
Why not buy a good used car amp at ebay? If you do not even know how to connect 2 speakers, you have no good starting point to do some complicated voltage multiplier/ D-amp constructions.
Better get a nice amp in a closed box and connect your woofer, earth and positive plus signal in. Many car amps have a x-over build in, so you can use the "low pass" for your HT sub.
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:40 PM   #12
FauxFrench is online now FauxFrench  France
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"Turbowatch2" has many correct points but a "well functioning ear" must also be according to German standards and not frequent around here. We can set the standards and ambitions so high that our constructions become unpleasantly expensive and we are hampered in having some pleasure from DIY electronics.

A large part of my life lived with 2X6W stereo in my car. No bass booster! I do not feel I have any trauma from that. Even with a 12V supply, you have enough sound pressure to enjoy music. You may even have some hearing left when you get elder. Music in a car is always a compromise importantly influenced by the car (Mercedes standard in Germany, Ford F150 in the US, Daihatsu in the NL and a Peugeor 206 around here). Unless you are obsessed with perfectionism, accept that it is for fun and you never get audiophile circumstances.

Asian power specifications are often assuming operational conditions you do not have. 12V supply for a class D amplifier means 18W in 4 Ohm. It will do for most uses. You can even get 36W for the woofer if you use 2 Ohm. It is enough to scare wife and children. It will not impress youth with a (small) car sounding like a mobile BoomBox - nothing will anyway. You will have as good music as your car allows.
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Old 20th September 2019, 03:09 PM   #13
Think is offline Think  Netherlands
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Small heatsinks on Tpa3116d2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbowatch2 View Post
.....
Just the same with sub woofers and running the satellites full range. For a well functioning ear the result is torture, far from the result possible with a frequency and load separation.
Good point about needing a high pass on satellites or in this case the front and back speakers. And I also recommend these boards and don't recommend any of the other 2.1 boards. They are not just missing the high pass but also a decent control over volume levels between the subs and tops, lots of noise problems especially on the models with bluetooth and many others.

Quote:
The 3116 is questionable as a sub amp, as it does not have a single watt more than the stereo channels. The promised 100 watt are at 24 volt supply with at least 5 ampere and a 2 ohm load while giving 10% distortion. With 12 volt and 4 ohms there are not even 12 watt rms left from the promise...
It is a Chinese misconception sold to unknowing and ignorant customers. Sad, but true.
......
I think the 3116 is a great sub amp as it sounds great and is able to drive low impedance loads getting a lot of clean power out of a modest input voltage. You just need the right load(s).

You get the 100W with 1%THD@24V and even 120W@26V and as there is no counter fitting of these chips (as far as we know of) these are American limitations.

You get the same voltage out of a BTL or PBTL but have to half the impedance of the load to get double the power out of it.


@TS: You have no headunit in the car which you use to play music and can use to power the front or back speakers?
(this will not work if you want to use the onboard bluetooth)

As some seem to (ab)use the TPA3118 (the lower power brother of tpa3116 which seems to be the exact the same chip in an upside down package and lower power specs) with 24V and 1Ohm loads in PBTL without a problem, a 2Ohm load at the left and right (BTL) speakers outputs would also be ok.


So if the front and back speakers are all 4Ohm or higher you can connect front and back speakers in parallel to the left and right outputs instead of in series.

Especially when you keep the voltage at the cars 12-15v this will be fine.

If you want more power out of the board you can use a voltage booster and need to start looking at cooling, especially if you want to put it in a closed box.
Double the voltage (12V->24V) will also (same as connecting the speakers in parallel instead of in series) give 4 times as much power or 6 Decibels; the difference between 1 or 2 speakers playing. Probably a lot less then you would expect.

Last edited by Think; 20th September 2019 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 21st September 2019, 04:16 AM   #14
Turbowatch2 is offline Turbowatch2  Germany
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@FauxFrench

The wonderfull concept of car HIFI has been perverted by the "Boom-Boom style" of certain age/mental health groups. BOSE has done the rest to convince people like you that Car Hifi is for ear less cretinīs with size deficits in the public area.

My last installation was in my daughters first car, a VW Golf 3 and consists of Seas 25mm tweeter, 16cm cast basket mid-low and two Canton 25cm woofer.
This is driven full active, with 2x30Wrms and 4x140Wrms amplification, directed by a head unit that matches delays and response with a microfone, like Audessey.

Speakers are from Norway, Italy and Germany, amps Italian and the Head unit, sorry, by Pioneer. All these components would not be displaced in a very good home stereo.

You are invited to bring your favorite CD and have a drive. Iīm pretty sure you will take a very long ride...
It is a very unusual experience, if you listen to fine music, while the world passes by like a 360° video in perfect graphical resolution. There is no need to hear loud, but the absence of distortion makes it possible to hear and feel music at live sound pressure levels. After a short while you accept that the stage, the music plays at, is much larger than the physical size of the car. It is like a concert in the first row.
The interior of a car is weird for usual loudspeakers, but if you do it right, can net you an experience not often found in home Hifi installations. Reflections can help you to project sound, instead of spoiling it. Oh, by the way, the installation is invisible, except the head unit.
There are very few, good commercial available installations, most highly expensive luxury car "Sound Systemīs" are just that: Sound effect producing gimmickīs for people with too much money to spent.
It is getting much harder to do car Hifi today, as the European laws actually prohibit you from installing parts in a car, that are not approved by the manufacturer. Off course VW, BMW or Mercedes Benz do not approve any custom installation, this is killing a whole Industry for the auto makers profit.
To me old cars get more attractive by the hour...


PS picture-Italian made 2x30W amp inside
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Last edited by Turbowatch2; 21st September 2019 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 21st September 2019, 11:25 AM   #15
digitaled is offline digitaled
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Ok..got it..thanks so much 👍👍🔊🔊
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Old 21st September 2019, 09:55 PM   #16
FauxFrench is online now FauxFrench  France
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@Turbowatch2

Again you demonstrate your impressive knowledge of how to implement a superior car stereo (among other). You have the skills, apparently also the money and your daughter the car (as one).
My point is that DIY electronics should be for all, also those with a more modest budget and less experience. You tell how it should be made to be really good, I settle for something that will work (for normal people) and give our members some good experience. Now the OP knows various options and can make his choice.

A Golf3. I had one as a station-wagon with an early TDI engine. Apart from some corrosion near the rear doors, it was reliable but not particularly silent. To make a mobile audiophile enclosure out of that must require quite some damping of resonances. That, the OP could consider as well, depending what is the starting point. Perhaps a "Trabi"?

Last you scare me with "....European laws actually prohibit you from installing parts in a car, that are not approved by the manufacturer." It has for a while been so for parts that influence safety or pollution but else we were free with "Wunderbaum", plush dices (not in the front) extreme stereo's, DVD players for the kids etc. Have they changed the rules? Down here, we are already suffering with German car-check standards since last year!
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Old 23rd September 2019, 03:27 AM   #17
Turbowatch2 is offline Turbowatch2  Germany
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@FF
This may be a little, just a tiny bit, off from the main theme of this thread, but I hope no one notices.
No, Iīm anything but rich. You should realize that my daughter drives a Golf 3 (build in 1997) and not the Ferrarino she deserves (like any decent daughter).
Iīm just able to plan and put things together, so used or occasions, sometimes used occasions, are my daily. I started to collect parts for the Golf when my daughters driving license was more than a year away, we put plates on it on her 18th birthday.
The audio was just a part of it, anything else was repaired and renewed too, including engine tuning for economy and emissions, brakes and suspension for safety...
much more than anyone would ever do repairs an old VW.
Skills, yes. Maybe there is an unfair advantage over others. My core bussines are old cars and my daughter did a lot of work by her self.
I try to get the best out of everything, this is the "German Krankheit" which the majority in our country once had. Remember when "made in Germany" was really worth something? So yes, the Golf-audio is really good.
If I add up how much all the good audio stuff in the Golf was when new, it may be 1500Euros, not that much. Used, all together, with all the small extra parts for Installation about € 500. Now you compare that to the cost of a medium class sound package for a new Golf X. You do not get the top line for €2500!
So her audio is really cheap.

I just wanted to explain to you that "Car HIFI" is really possible and can be enjoyed even by very picky audio enthusiasts like you (and me).

To get to your DIYS point, yes, it is for all. My opinion is, if you donīt show how (good) it can be done, how can someone with less skillīs and maybe less money, learn something and pick the information that gives him the best he can get? If you have a question, do you want a low budget or a good answer?
If we are discussing Hifi-amps here, it is about how to make something really good out of some raw material the China man calls a product?
If we talk about speakers, it is about how to do them better than the industry. Cheaper is just a side effect of this DIYS here. Most we do high quality-low cost here. At least we try to.
Many of us have limited spare time, it would be sad if it was wasted for something worthless.

If you had a Golf 3, this was quite a while ago? Ourīs after 150.000km has anything new you can think of, because these cars break down over time, but you as a driver do not notice it. It would need much less time to tell what is untouched on it, than what has been repaired. Economically very questionable, but if you want to educate someone, this is something else. Have you had the pistons and valves of your car in your hand? My daughter, yes.
The doors were silenced and the speaker are positioned on some wood panels that are glued and screwed to the sheet metal. Silence not done with brute force = weight, but intelligent, where it matters.

If you are scared about EU DIYS car restrictions, you are right. If you own a new car, you are not allowed to put any electronics inside, that have not been tested to be compatible with the rest. Even a pair of passive speakers! A test only the manufacturer can do. This has really dried out after market car HIFI. Didnīt you notice that all those "Car Audio Service" shopīs have closed down? Have you been to some large Electronics store recently and found noting of the once huge car audio department? All shrunk to some left overīs in a remote corner? Yes, that is sad.

So, end of "off topic".

Last edited by Turbowatch2; 23rd September 2019 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 3rd October 2019, 02:15 PM   #18
digitaled is offline digitaled
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So today I got my amplifier and as suggested earlier installed a12 volt fan to it.

I was not having a small fan so use this regular size fan on top of it and on the sides I made some holes for the air ventilation definitely looks funny but it's going to to be hidden in the car so I guess it's fine until unless the chip itself remain cool.

Now here's a new problem that I have after connecting it to the 12 volt supply in the car the output is great its loud and powerful with all the speakers and the woofer connected but the sound was coming bit distorted.

it was little bit distorted not completly clear and then I tried in my home with a regular 12 volt volt adaptor and sound was perfect there was no distortion at all now.

Can you please tell me how can I fix this problem.

Do I have to buy some sort of power supply for any adaptor that can fix the distortion in the car.
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg Screenshot_20191003-194342_Gallery.jpg (210.8 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20191003-194348_Gallery.jpg (276.1 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20191003-194350_Gallery.jpg (189.5 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20191003-194355_Gallery.jpg (270.6 KB, 15 views)
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Old 3rd October 2019, 09:41 PM   #19
Turbowatch2 is offline Turbowatch2  Germany
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Could you describe what set-up distorts and what components do not? Donīt get the picture from your post.
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Old 3rd October 2019, 11:37 PM   #20
FauxFrench is online now FauxFrench  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitaled View Post
.................................................. ..........
Now here's a new problem that I have after connecting it to the 12 volt supply in the car the output is great its loud and powerful with all the speakers and the woofer connected but the sound was coming bit distorted.

it was little bit distorted not completly clear and then I tried in my home with a regular 12 volt volt adaptor and sound was perfect there was no distortion at all now.

Can you please tell me how can I fix this problem.

Do I have to buy some sort of power supply for any adaptor that can fix the distortion in the car.
Your chassis looks good!
The distortion may be caused by the same phenomenon that irritated hansueli for a while. It seems that batteries are not suited for direct supply of an amplifier. They seem to react only slowly to changes in the power consumption while an amplifier is a very dynamic load. For temporary energy supply to the amplifier you need good power line decoupling capacitors. The amplifier has only little decoupling on-board. Connect some 10000uF (25V) near the power terminals of the amplifier and see if the problem disappears.
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