The one with a volume dial and FLAC and USB on the front.............Not sure of exact model name.Oldish model.
I want to build a system that will consist of turntable, Raspberry Pi (wireless?) and a PC ITX, I want to keep it small where I can.
The PC will hold the library and artwork, the Pi will have Moode, Volumio or similar, so PC will have graphics for that too, USB and FLAC will be used as well sometimes.........
The bit I am unsure about is the need for a pre-amp for the deck. Does the SMSL amp have one built in or will I need a separate one?
Oh and a pair of Kef Cresta 2s
Did one ages ago similar but forgot most of what I learned then.
I want to build a system that will consist of turntable, Raspberry Pi (wireless?) and a PC ITX, I want to keep it small where I can.
The PC will hold the library and artwork, the Pi will have Moode, Volumio or similar, so PC will have graphics for that too, USB and FLAC will be used as well sometimes.........
The bit I am unsure about is the need for a pre-amp for the deck. Does the SMSL amp have one built in or will I need a separate one?
Oh and a pair of Kef Cresta 2s
Did one ages ago similar but forgot most of what I learned then.
stree, I suspect no one has answered you because you're asking several things, and the answer(s) could be complicated.
Regarding matching a turntable to your proposed SMSL amplifer, that's an easy one: yes, you will need to add a separate phono preamp.
Regarding your proposed amplifier purchase, it's worth knowing there were several variants of that SMSL model;
The original SA-36 and SA-36A had the Tripath TA2020 chip.
Around 2015 they released the SA-36A pro with the TPA3118 chip. This was a cheap but good sounding, and well regarded amplifier.
At some point SMSL changed the amplifier chip to the TDA7492PE, but the model number was unchanged. This revised version apparently did not sound quite as good.
Then they released the SA-36A plus, which added a basic media player from USB/microSD card, plus Bluetooth ... and they reverted back to the TPA3118 amplifier chip.
You mentioned that your system will include a rPi which will access music from a PC fileshare, so I can't see that you would need the USB/microSD playback feature of the "plus" amplifier - it seems to me that if you occasionally want to access new music on flash media that a more elegant solution would be to mount this flash media on the PC fileshare - but that's just me.
Be aware that these cheap class D amps are almost all single input, and since you will have at least 2 separate sources, turntable and rPi, you will need some form of source selector.
I presume you have chosen the SA-36A pro/plus because it's the "value champion" amplifier?
If so, I should let you know that this amp has been overtaken in recent times by the Breeze Audio (or Weiling) TPA3116 "Mini" amplifier, which sells on AliExpress for the ridiculous price of US$27, plus $12 for a power supply.
Or for a "premium" implementation of the TPA3116/3118 chip, the ALLO Volt+ is still a bargain at US$39 + $18 for power supply, if you don't mind mounting this in your own case.
And then there's the new kid on the block for cheap class D amps - the TPA325x chips. A fully cased example is the FX-Audio FX-502SPRO, for about US$70 including power supply. Early reports indicate that this amp may sound better than the TPA3116/3118 amps, depending on what speakers you have.
Regarding matching a turntable to your proposed SMSL amplifer, that's an easy one: yes, you will need to add a separate phono preamp.
Regarding your proposed amplifier purchase, it's worth knowing there were several variants of that SMSL model;
The original SA-36 and SA-36A had the Tripath TA2020 chip.
Around 2015 they released the SA-36A pro with the TPA3118 chip. This was a cheap but good sounding, and well regarded amplifier.
At some point SMSL changed the amplifier chip to the TDA7492PE, but the model number was unchanged. This revised version apparently did not sound quite as good.
Then they released the SA-36A plus, which added a basic media player from USB/microSD card, plus Bluetooth ... and they reverted back to the TPA3118 amplifier chip.
You mentioned that your system will include a rPi which will access music from a PC fileshare, so I can't see that you would need the USB/microSD playback feature of the "plus" amplifier - it seems to me that if you occasionally want to access new music on flash media that a more elegant solution would be to mount this flash media on the PC fileshare - but that's just me.
Be aware that these cheap class D amps are almost all single input, and since you will have at least 2 separate sources, turntable and rPi, you will need some form of source selector.
I presume you have chosen the SA-36A pro/plus because it's the "value champion" amplifier?
If so, I should let you know that this amp has been overtaken in recent times by the Breeze Audio (or Weiling) TPA3116 "Mini" amplifier, which sells on AliExpress for the ridiculous price of US$27, plus $12 for a power supply.
Or for a "premium" implementation of the TPA3116/3118 chip, the ALLO Volt+ is still a bargain at US$39 + $18 for power supply, if you don't mind mounting this in your own case.
And then there's the new kid on the block for cheap class D amps - the TPA325x chips. A fully cased example is the FX-Audio FX-502SPRO, for about US$70 including power supply. Early reports indicate that this amp may sound better than the TPA3116/3118 amps, depending on what speakers you have.
Linuxfan,
First, many thanks for the time taken to understand what I am trying to do and the comprehensive response to it. Much appreciated.
I was unsure about the need for a pre-amp, you have cleared that up.
Because this set up is just for my workshop and not a too serious affair, I will get by with a Behringer P400. Had one before and does the job for me.
The SMSLamps...None of the ones I had/have are Tripath, 7492 I believe so not the best iteration.
As you rightly point out, the sPi will do away with the need for the FLAC and USB on the amp.
I have been following a Topping dual RCA inputs 2050 unit but think the Breeze Audio willl be a better bet for me, I do have a 4 way channel selector box so no problem with inputs.
You are right on the next point, I used the SMSL amps as known cheap but decent units, but things have moved on since I last had those and as mentioned, the Breeze looks ideal, no need yet for the TPA 325x chip amps.
You have helped clarify my thoughts on the above so again, thanks.
I have found a UK source for the Breeze Audio, at £21:00 which is great, so nly question I have now is which of the 2 sets of speakers I have to use with this set up: I have a decent pair of Kef Cresta 2 and a pair of Omnitronics which are a copy of the JBL I suppose, here is the bumph about them,
I understand that the 4 ohms would suit the Breeze better than the 8 ohms.
Personally I prefer the Kefs but have to go with what the amp wants.
Thanks again Linuxfan!
First, many thanks for the time taken to understand what I am trying to do and the comprehensive response to it. Much appreciated.
I was unsure about the need for a pre-amp, you have cleared that up.
Because this set up is just for my workshop and not a too serious affair, I will get by with a Behringer P400. Had one before and does the job for me.
The SMSLamps...None of the ones I had/have are Tripath, 7492 I believe so not the best iteration.
As you rightly point out, the sPi will do away with the need for the FLAC and USB on the amp.
I have been following a Topping dual RCA inputs 2050 unit but think the Breeze Audio willl be a better bet for me, I do have a 4 way channel selector box so no problem with inputs.
You are right on the next point, I used the SMSL amps as known cheap but decent units, but things have moved on since I last had those and as mentioned, the Breeze looks ideal, no need yet for the TPA 325x chip amps.
You have helped clarify my thoughts on the above so again, thanks.
I have found a UK source for the Breeze Audio, at £21:00 which is great, so nly question I have now is which of the 2 sets of speakers I have to use with this set up: I have a decent pair of Kef Cresta 2 and a pair of Omnitronics which are a copy of the JBL I suppose, here is the bumph about them,
Omnitronic Control 1 white 2x is a powerful monitor-speaker, 2-way speaker-system, bass reflex enclosure, clear and powerful sound wide range of uses in spite of minimum size, impressive power output in combination with the matching optional subwoofer. Also ideal for de-central sound surroundings, wall-mounting also available, packed as a pair (2 pieces). It has rated power: 30 W RMS, program power: 60 W components: 13 cm woofer (5 inches), 2.5 cm tweeter (1 inches), connections: terminal sensitivity: 89 dB (1 w, 1 m), impedance: 4 ohms, frequency range: 50 Hz - 18 kHz, dimensions (H x W x D): 230 x 150 x 150 mm and weight: 1.6 kg.
The Kef are 8ohm and 10-100 watt 92 dB sensitivity and
48 - 28000 HzThe Kef are 8ohm and 10-100 watt 92 dB sensitivity and
I understand that the 4 ohms would suit the Breeze better than the 8 ohms.
Personally I prefer the Kefs but have to go with what the amp wants.
Thanks again Linuxfan!
Not able to edit my last post yet, maybe still waiting for mods, but wanted to add, I have watched 3 youtube reviews, more technical rather than enthusiast type and each reasoned that this amp (Breeze Audio) was more suited to 8ohms than 4, so that is good news for me re using the Kefs.
I already have a Meanwell 24volt 6.5 amp PSU and 19 volt laptop type about 4 amp.
I already have a Meanwell 24volt 6.5 amp PSU and 19 volt laptop type about 4 amp.
Yes, along with the ALLO, the Breeze is attracting rave reviews. I can't find the link right now, but on one of the audio forums I know that someone is using 6 Breeze amplifiers, via an expensive digital crossover, into some very expensive speakers, and saying they see no need to upgrade these amps.
It's worth pointing out that early Breeze models were single-chip. I believe this model is now retrospectively referred to as model "BA100" but it's mostly been replaced by the updated dual-chip model - and be careful, choose the stereo "2.0" model (which is obviously dual mono) not the "2.1" model, which is one chip in stereo, and the second chip in mono for subwoofer.
I believe the main factor to match speaker impedance is the value of the output inductors. For dual TPA3116 chips in PBTL mode, the optimal inductor value is 10uH for 4 ohm, and 22uH for 8 ohm. But unfortunately the Breeze Mini amplifier has toroidal inductors with no external markings, so who knows?
Let your ears decide. Let the amp burn in for a few days, then do a listening test. That's what this hobby is all about - selecting the components which give us the most listening pleasure.
And since you seem to be aiming for a genuine hifi system here, not just a workshop boombox, once you settle on the right speakers, I think it's worth investigating the hype over on the AudioKarma forum, where the TPA3116 fans are enthusiastically driving their amps from a cheap, but highly regarded, tube preamp called the FX-Audio TUBE-01. No joke, it's US$32 on Amazon - although you can upgrade the tubes and power supply.
The discussion started here just two weeks ago -
TPA 3116 vs the tripaths | Page 386 | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
And finally, regarding a phono preamp, I've read that the value-champion is the ART DJPRE II - US$49 from Amazon, although this supports only MM cartridges, not MC.
If your cartridge is moving coil, you will want the Schiit Mani instead - US$129 direct.
Forgot to add, even though the reviewers I mentioned found areas to improve upon, overall they were very postive and recommended it.
The 6 Breeze setup sounds fun! will look out for that.
I actually just hit the button and purchsed that one from UK source, checked back nd its a 2. not 2.1 and no mention of subs.
I think I will be happy enough with the Behringer phono amp, it does get good reviews!
I am using MM cart, the TT is a 1975 Aurex SR-Q660,( had from new) keeping orig MM cart ( for now) and just ordered replacement stylus.
Enjoying this planning it out and analysing the components! Going to start making some cables up with banana plugs and RCA connectors.
The FX-Audio tube amp sounds intriguing, will check that link, thanks.
The 6 Breeze setup sounds fun! will look out for that.
I actually just hit the button and purchsed that one from UK source, checked back nd its a 2. not 2.1 and no mention of subs.
I think I will be happy enough with the Behringer phono amp, it does get good reviews!
I am using MM cart, the TT is a 1975 Aurex SR-Q660,( had from new) keeping orig MM cart ( for now) and just ordered replacement stylus.
Enjoying this planning it out and analysing the components! Going to start making some cables up with banana plugs and RCA connectors.
The FX-Audio tube amp sounds intriguing, will check that link, thanks.
Ordered both Behringer PP400, found B stock box damage at £14 full warranty,UK seller
and also FX-Audio Tube 01 £21 UK seller.
Going to try both, probably keep the PP400 as a spare and look around to see which valves and PSU get best recommendations for the FX TUBE.
Hesitated buying the TUBE because I only saw it referred to as a buffer, not as a pre/phono amp so not sure if it was right for the job.
and also FX-Audio Tube 01 £21 UK seller.
Going to try both, probably keep the PP400 as a spare and look around to see which valves and PSU get best recommendations for the FX TUBE.
Hesitated buying the TUBE because I only saw it referred to as a buffer, not as a pre/phono amp so not sure if it was right for the job.
It's definitely a buffer, but the distinction between line buffer and line preamp is quite minor, anyway. In general, a buffer or preamp is used to process your source signal so the output impedance is better matched (usually lowered) to your power amp, and also to eliminate any impedance variations which may be introduced by the volume potentiometer ... however ...
sometimes a preamp is simply used to "flavour" the input signal, and this is very much the case here - the FX-Audio TUBE-01 adds some warmth to the otherwise slightly clinical nature of the TPA3116 amplifier. When the notion of the TPA3116/3118 being slightly clinical was first raised on audio forums about 3 years ago or so, quite a few its fans were in angry disagreement, but with the passage of time there's now a fair sized group of TPA3116 users (mainly represented on the AudioKarma forum) who are convinced that a tube pre is needed to allow the TPA3116 to sound its best.
Please be aware the FX-Audio TUBE-01 is definitely NOT a phono preamp. Your turntable will still need to be connected via your Behringer PP400 into the TUBE-01.
People on the AudioCircle forum have done some tube-rolling, and they seem to recommend GE 5654W's. They say to buy from an eBay seller who has a high sales approval rating, and a pair should cost about US$20, or for a bit more you can buy a tested/matched pair.
Regarding power supply, on the AudioKarma forum member Poultrygeist recommends a Pyramid or Astron linear supply. I think I saw someone use a more exotic Studer 900 power supply, which they built themselves from a kit, but as I do a web search for this just now I see there's a fully cased Studer 900 power supply which is actually branded Breeze Audio !
25W HIFI Ultra Low Noise Linear Power Supply DC Regulated PSU Refer STUDER900 5V 6V 7V 9V 12V 15V 24V Optional-in Amplifier from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
I have a matched pair of GE5654 W JAP tubes on the way. As for power supply, can`t work out if a wallwart is included...but wouldn`t use that anyway.
I have a guy in China that custom builds PSUs mainly for PC 24 pin type adaptors, usually reworked DELL laptop supplies. I have 4 12 volt, 2 @ 300 watt and a 90 and a 120 watt.
Not linear quality but as good as a switching supply gets.
Now also dropping the Rpi and hat DAC, going for a Behringer ACU220, good reviews and had no issues with Behringer gear.
Banana plugs have arrived, as has the Tosh TT stylus.......steady progress.
Also realised I had now better start rerecording all my NAS music into FLAC instead of MP3 amd M4A
I have a guy in China that custom builds PSUs mainly for PC 24 pin type adaptors, usually reworked DELL laptop supplies. I have 4 12 volt, 2 @ 300 watt and a 90 and a 120 watt.
Not linear quality but as good as a switching supply gets.
Now also dropping the Rpi and hat DAC, going for a Behringer ACU220, good reviews and had no issues with Behringer gear.
Banana plugs have arrived, as has the Tosh TT stylus.......steady progress.
Also realised I had now better start rerecording all my NAS music into FLAC instead of MP3 amd M4A
I would consider those power supplies quite suitable for your TPA3116 amp. The 120 watt version is adequate for your amp, but heck, use the 300 watt version if it's not needed for anything else.
Well engineered and well filtered SMPS's are certainly fine for audio applications. You will see that ALLO recommends a standard, off-the-shelf SMPS for their TPA3116 amps, but they say their "+" models gain sonic benefits from the addition of a capacitance multiplier.
But for the preamp I take the old-school attitude and prefer linear supplies here - something tried and true like the LT1963 regulator -
Ultra-low Noise <40μV Adjustable Voltage Regulator Module, Based on LT1963. | eBay
But OK, if you go for an SMPS, consider the well-regarded iFi iPower - US$49 on Amazon
iPower by iFi audio | Low Noise DC Power Supply with International Travel Adapters
I'm guessing you mean UCA202. Sure, that will get your toes wet in hifi digital audio playback. There's an interesting site where DAC's are tested by an engineer who is somewhat merciless in his technical assessments, and you can see his test of the UCA202 here -
Budget DAC Review and Measurements: Behringer UCA222 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
If you do some more reading on that site, you will see that the recommended entry-level DACs are the Schiit Modi 3 or Topping D30, both around US$100.
If you upgrade to something like this at a later stage, it's also worth looking at your audio playback software, and overall computer audio configuration - aiming for bit-perfect playback. You're on a journey.
Yes, because what started out for you as an affordable-but-decent hifi system is likely to be more high-end than you originally imagined!
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This must be the dread GAS............Ah well.
The 300 watt supplies ( I have 2) are for 2 of my ITX boxes, one with AMD Ryzen 2600 that needs a beefy supply, one 300w psu is spare.....but custom molex connector, 8 pin..............this is because of the 38amps theoretically going through at high demand........if I swapped it for a 5.5-2.5 it would/could melt it! although the amp would never pull that much juice....I think.
I have got a decent 19V 6.8 amp laptop PSU that I had intended for the Breeze amp. After much reading up, I reckoned 19 volts was the sweetspot, although 12 volt would be easier to work with for what I have in mind: Reseating the heatsink with decent compound and rigging up a 12 volt computer fan probably 92mm slim to cool the chip and sink..I could add an inline resistor to drop it to 7 volt for silent running ( As I do in my PC boxes)
Might be a bit of case modding but don`t mind that. Can live with voided warranty.
On the lookout for ex ham radio/medical equipment PSUs, usually linear.
I am fine taking the PC audio incrementally, more time to research and experiment. The PCs I run are all ASRock motherboard based and they are known for good audio ( in PC terms!) I am fine starting off listening to MP3s and vinyl, then spend and tweak as necessary.
As you rightly infer, this thing gathers its own momentum!
The 300 watt supplies ( I have 2) are for 2 of my ITX boxes, one with AMD Ryzen 2600 that needs a beefy supply, one 300w psu is spare.....but custom molex connector, 8 pin..............this is because of the 38amps theoretically going through at high demand........if I swapped it for a 5.5-2.5 it would/could melt it! although the amp would never pull that much juice....I think.
I have got a decent 19V 6.8 amp laptop PSU that I had intended for the Breeze amp. After much reading up, I reckoned 19 volts was the sweetspot, although 12 volt would be easier to work with for what I have in mind: Reseating the heatsink with decent compound and rigging up a 12 volt computer fan probably 92mm slim to cool the chip and sink..I could add an inline resistor to drop it to 7 volt for silent running ( As I do in my PC boxes)
Might be a bit of case modding but don`t mind that. Can live with voided warranty.
On the lookout for ex ham radio/medical equipment PSUs, usually linear.
I am fine taking the PC audio incrementally, more time to research and experiment. The PCs I run are all ASRock motherboard based and they are known for good audio ( in PC terms!) I am fine starting off listening to MP3s and vinyl, then spend and tweak as necessary.
As you rightly infer, this thing gathers its own momentum!
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