Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

TPA3116 D2 mono amplifier as a stereo system?
TPA3116 D2 mono amplifier as a stereo system?
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th September 2018, 10:22 PM   #1
AudioMech73 is offline AudioMech73
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Default TPA3116 D2 mono amplifier as a stereo system?

The TPA3116DA 100 watt mono amplifier seems to get excellent ratings considering the low price point.

Has anyone tried a stereo setup with 2 of those amps?

How would you power such a setup to keep the overall system as compact as possible?

Would appreciate your ideas and feedback.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2018, 10:32 PM   #2
FauxFrench is offline FauxFrench  France
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: The mountains, calm and quiet.
A good choice for a stereo amplifier. I have only tried with TPA3118 which is the same chip but less good cooling abilities.
The 100W is in 2 Ohm. If you use 8 Ohm or 4 Ohm speakers, use a 24V/6A "laptop brick" and 10000uF/35V between the brick and the amplifiers. One power supply for both amplifiers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2018, 11:25 PM   #3
FauxFrench is offline FauxFrench  France
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: The mountains, calm and quiet.
Modification. I will suggest you this mono module instead:
Numerique Puissance Audio Amplificateur Conseil TPA3116 100 w DC 12 v 24 v Mono Canal BTL Out dans Amplificateur de Electronique sur AliExpress.com | Alibaba Group

The reason is, as I just noticed, the board you suggest uses 33uH ("330") chokes in the output filter. 33uH chokes of that type can only handle some 2Arms before saturation and you cannot use the full capacity of the TPA3116 chip.
The board I suggest uses 10uH ("100") chokes that can handle around 3-3.5Arms before saturation. Then you have more output power.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2018, 09:03 PM   #4
AudioMech73 is offline AudioMech73
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Thanks for your feedback @FauxFrench.

If I see this correctly the mentioned mono amp has the following specification:

Chip Type: TPA3116D2
Supply voltage: dc12-26v
Output Power: 100W
SNR: 100db
Channels: Mono
size: 79 * 54 * 16MM

Where do you see that it has 2 Ohm?


I got a couple of newbie questions if you don't mind as this is the first time I am building a system with 2 mono amps:

- What kind of speakers would you recommend for those amps in a stereo setup? Are speakers with lower impedance generally considered better?

- How do you determine the required power in watt of your power supply for this setup?

- Would there be any benefit of using 2 power supplies, for instance this one, over a single laptop brick? Most laptop power supplies I find are either 15V / 6A or 24V / 5A. I wouldn't mind using a dedicated power supply.

- With "10000uF/35V" I guess you are referring to a power rectifier like this one? One of those would be sufficient to run the 2 mono amps with one power supply?

- How do you implement volume control to simultaneously manage both amps? I guess you use a pre-amplifier for that which could also manage the input source (CD / MP3 etc.)?


Thanks a lot for your advice which is much appreciated.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2018, 09:07 PM   #5
AudioMech73 is offline AudioMech73
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
P.S.: The other mono amp that you mentioned seems to suffer from some quality issues.. Not sure if the reviewer was just unlucky with the samples they sent him...
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2018, 10:48 PM   #6
FauxFrench is offline FauxFrench  France
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: The mountains, calm and quiet.
If I see this correctly the mentioned mono amp has the following specification:

Chip Type: TPA3116D2
Supply voltage: dc12-26v
Output Power: 100W
SNR: 100db
Channels: Mono
size: 79 * 54 * 16MM

Where do you see that it has 2 Ohm?
The (exaggerated) 100W have been discussed more times on this forum. TPA3116 is limited by its maximum supply voltage of 26V (applying some margin, 24V). Even with 26V supply it is impossible to have 100W in 4 Ohm (or 8 Ohm for that matter). The theoretical maximum with 26V is some 75W in 4 Ohm. You have to go below 4 Ohm to get 100W out.

of * Ohm
I got a couple of newbie questions if you don't mind as this is the first time I am building a system with 2 mono amps:

- What kind of speakers would you recommend for those amps in a stereo setup? Are speakers with lower impedance generally considered better?
In the past, 8 Ohm speakers were considered "best" because the damping factor with a class AB amplifier would be the highest. With class D, damping factor is no longer an issue. Today, the advantage of 8 Ohm is you can use the speakers on any amplifier. And, the distortion is normally a little better with 8 Ohm, even for class D amplifiers. But, you have less output power than with 4 Ohm.

- How do you determine the required power in watt of your power supply for this setup?
In a following posting.......

- Would there be any benefit of using 2 power supplies, for instance this one, over a single laptop brick? Most laptop power supplies I find are either 15V / 6A or 24V / 5A. I wouldn't mind using a dedicated power supply.
To use the full capacity of an TPA3116 chip you should use a 24V supply. Two separate supplies leave a marginal advantage due to very little interference from one channel on the other. The difference may be difficult to notice in practice.
I have the power supply you suggested. It lasted some 10 minutes before breaking down! I will suggest you this one instead: AC 100 240 V a 24 V DC 6A 150 W alimentacion AC DC modulo interruptor G08 gran valor abril 4 en Fuente de Alimentacion Conmutada de Mejoras para el hogar en AliExpress.com | Alibaba Group
, or a "brick" with a casing.

- With "10000uF/35V" I guess you are referring to a power rectifier like this one? One of those would be sufficient to run the 2 mono amps with one power supply?
If you use a "brick" power supply, the output is already DC so the rectifier part is not needed. But, good decoupling capacitors are important for a powerful bass. How much capacitance in the decoupling depends on the amplifier power, the speaker impedance and the "brick" regulation speed. I normally use around 10000uF.

- How do you implement volume control to simultaneously manage both amps? I guess you use a pre-amplifier for that which could also manage the input source (CD / MP3 etc.)?
All you need is a stereo potentiometer with 2x5KOhm resistance. Personally I use a good headphone amplifier with a volume control as pre-amp. The headphone amp. is feed from a separate DAC controlled by optical toslink from a BlueTooth receiver module. I only stream music from various sources.

Lastly, the quality of the mono PBTL module I suggested. I have several TPA3116 and 3118 modules that perform without such noise described at YouTube. I do not have that particular module myself.
The module you suggested seems very fine APART from a weird choice of 33uH chokes when TI recommends 10uH. 33uH chokes can stand considerably less output current than 10uH such that the 33uH chokes become a limiting factor for the output power. Therefore, I suggested the other module but without knowing it appears to have a noise problem.

Last edited by FauxFrench; 20th September 2018 at 11:17 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2018, 09:26 PM   #7
AudioMech73 is offline AudioMech73
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Thanks for your detailed response @FauxFrench.

I think there are not many mono amp options available with that chipset and power range.

So let's settle on 2 units of the TPA3116DA 100 watt mono amplifier for simplicity...


I read an interesting article last night that explained how to choose the right speakers for your amp in terms of power. Considering that this setup will be used for normal music listening in a room of roughly 50 m3, I think the following applies:


"If you are mainly doing light dance music or voice, we recommend that the amplifier power be 1.6 times the Continuous Power rating per channel. If you are doing heavy metal/grunge, try 2.5 times the Continuous Power rating per channel. The amplifier power must be rated for the impedance of the loudspeaker (2, 4, 8 or 16 ohms). ... So stay with 1.6 to 2.5 times the speaker's continuous power rating."


So if I have 100 watts of power available per channel (which will not be reached in practice) and choose speakers with an impedance of 8 Ohm as you suggested, I would need full range speaker models with the following specification according to this formula (depending on the applied factor):

100 watts / 1.6 = 62.5 watts of continuous power rating per speaker
100 watts / 2 = 50 watts of continuous power rating per speaker
100 watts / 2.5 = 40 watts of continuous power rating per speaker

Does that make sense?


I guess that would then also determine the power supply the should be used:

The AC 100-240 V a 24 V DC 6A 150 Watt model you suggested looks fine.

A laptop "brick" for 24V at 6A would be more expensive.

Another option would be a metal-boxed model, which are bit higher in price with that specification.

Considering the price of the amplifiers, would it be reasonable to choose the model you suggested and then 1 or 2 of those?


Could you recommend a suitable decoupling capacitor board for that setup?


I would also appreciate, if you could suggest a good pre-amplifier board with volume control. USB/MP3 and Bluetooth feature as a source for both amps would be nice (not sure if that is available in that combination)...


Thank you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2018, 07:47 AM   #8
FauxFrench is offline FauxFrench  France
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: The mountains, calm and quiet.
It makes sense and based on the philosophy of not loosing control with the speaker. It is an old discussion if the amplifier or the speaker should be the “strongest”. At heavy amplifier clipping (heavy distortion), the amplifier looses control of the speaker movement such that the coil may deviate from its correct linear movement in the narrow magnet air-gap and the coil may strike the magnet. Such may cause permanent mechanical damage even at a power considerably below the rated power of the speaker. Understand the power rating of a speaker such that it is a power level the manufacturer guarantees the speaker can stand for long with a clean input signal. In reality it can stand more for a short time. It is not so that above that power level the speaker is just burned in a short moment. The magnet strike is more unpredictable because it happens in a fraction of a second.

The "brick" has the advantage of being protected by a casing. It costs around 18 US$. The power supply I suggested 11-12 US$.

One power supply is more than enough for two amplifiers. A posting on how to estimate the size of a power supply is coming up soon.

For the decoupling capacitor board, I need to see if that power supply accepts 10000uF at the output. My "bricks" do. I will try with my power supply sometime today.

Last edited by FauxFrench; 22nd September 2018 at 07:54 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2018, 11:38 AM   #9
Khron is offline Khron  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Finland
Send a message via AIM to Khron Send a message via MSN to Khron Send a message via Yahoo to Khron
Regarding power supplies - there are loads of used (actual) laptop power bricks, ie. 19-20V ones available online. I'd trust those infinitely more than whatever brand new crap you can get from the far east. I say "crap" because you don't wanna be d*cking around with cut-rate stuff when we're talking about things you plug into the mains. But that's just me...

Most of those are made my well-known and highly-regarded OEMs like Delta, LiteOn, AcBel, Astec etc.

Just as a quick example, on the local market over here, i found a company selling a "surplus" of 120W (20V 6A) LiteOn laptop bricks for under 6eu a pop...

Sure, you might have to spend some time looking for "the right thing", but i'd say that's worth it, rather than rolling the dice (with your health / life) on health-/fire-hazards like that chinese stuff. Plus you have the near-certainty they haven't skimped on components (isolation inside the transformer, japanese capacitors etc).

Case in point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FauxFrench View Post
I have the power supply you suggested. It lasted some 10 minutes before breaking down! I will suggest you this one instead: AC 100 240 V a 24 V DC 6A 150 W alimentacion AC DC modulo interruptor G08 gran valor abril 4 en Fuente de Alimentacion Conmutada de Mejoras para el hogar en AliExpress.com | Alibaba Group
, or a "brick" with a casing.
__________________
Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

Last edited by Khron; 22nd September 2018 at 11:40 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2018, 08:35 PM   #10
AudioMech73 is offline AudioMech73
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
I completely agree with the health and safety implications regarding the power supply. So let's go with a laptop "brick" version, which then leads to the question of the specification so that it can handle those 2 mono amps (and a pre-amp).

JohnAudioTech has reviewed the mono amp model on YouTube and published the pre-clipping power output that can realistically be expected for different speaker loads and supply voltages (at 08:28).


8 Ohm
----------

20v -> 19.5 watt

22v -> 24.5 watt

24 v -> 28.1 watt


4 Ohm
----------

20v -> 34.8 watt

22v -> 45.6 watt

24 v -> 51.8 watt


The question is then which factor should be applied (1.6 - 2.5) to calculate the continuous power rating per speaker that should be used for each channel ?

And the other question is if these amps can be operated continuously at 24v, without running into any heat problems?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


TPA3116 D2 mono amplifier as a stereo system?Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
zenith console amplifier (a stereo mono amplifier :) ) dr_skoobie Tubes / Valves 1 14th February 2015 03:42 PM
SMPS for Stereo Amplifier vs Mono Amplifier eem2am Power Supplies 0 7th December 2011 05:36 PM
Bridge an stereo amplifier to MONO Mikewong Solid State 3 27th July 2011 02:57 PM
Mono subwoofer on stereo amplifier possible? Audio Johnny Subwoofers 9 21st April 2008 10:31 PM
PA System Stereo or Mono 96tahoe PA Systems 8 4th April 2008 11:33 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:14 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki