Don't you think I'll forget what it used to sound like and just "grow" together with all the possible changes? With break-in is just like with children. You get them at 3,5kg and all of a sudden they are 20kg. You didn't notice a gram of change day by day, did you?
oh yesss!! otherwise this hobby makes no sense for me...i am a listener and enjoy listening...
Hi FF
where did you measure the carrier frequency?
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/cla...tpa3116-2-0-100w-dual-chip-3.html#post5792321
at my amp on the outputs i "learnt" that the tpa3116 "choose" its frequency by itself.
thx chris
Cool, man. What are the benefits to this board/circuit to simply having the capacitor going between voltage and ground?
hi
i personally do not have your board but i guess its like this: ...see pic
What FF mentoined is you have to connect it like you use just 1 output = 1 capacitor because you do not need the "negativ" voltage.
If you want to have both caps in parallel you have to modifiy the board layout.
chris
Attachments
It is substantially the same. This board includes small HF-decoupling film capacitors and rectifier diodes for ensuring correct polarity. The main effect is the big 10000uF capacitor and you can also just add a separate 10000uF capacitor on the supply wires (voltage/ground).
Don't you think I'll forget what it used to sound like and just "grow" together with all the possible changes? With break-in is just like with children. You get them at 3,5kg and all of a sudden they are 20kg. You didn't notice a gram of change day by day, did you?
i accept every statement...thx weissi
yes the electrolytic are most noteable- because they are stored a lot of time in the sellers...foils caps too i think
i always buy 2 of the same amps...
i correct my self because i over read the "day by day" ---> no day by day its not really possible, but new amp compared with an amp which plays around 70 - 100 hours i notice.
chris
post #183
Originally Posted by FauxFrench
Do the chokes also heat up? If so, it is likely that the carrier frequency of the chip is wrong. None of my TPA3116/18 boards heat up. One did and that was because the gain/mode setting was wrong and the carrier frequency became some 130KHz.
Hi FF
where did you measure the carrier frequency?
New Breeeze Audio TPA3116 2.0 100W dual chip
at my amp on the outputs i "learnt" that the tpa3116 "choose" its frequency by itself.
thx chris
Originally Posted by FauxFrench
Do the chokes also heat up? If so, it is likely that the carrier frequency of the chip is wrong. None of my TPA3116/18 boards heat up. One did and that was because the gain/mode setting was wrong and the carrier frequency became some 130KHz.
Hi FF
where did you measure the carrier frequency?
New Breeeze Audio TPA3116 2.0 100W dual chip
at my amp on the outputs i "learnt" that the tpa3116 "choose" its frequency by itself.
thx chris
I have an update regarding my output filter mod.
I had a chance too listen to a lot of albums I know quite well over these last few days, and the change that I notice is (you tell if science says I'm only imagining) that the mids and especially highs are much nicer. Vocals are more life like, and I even get almost proper cymbals. Not something I'm used to on my fullrange speakers and countless cheap amp boards
I had a chance too listen to a lot of albums I know quite well over these last few days, and the change that I notice is (you tell if science says I'm only imagining) that the mids and especially highs are much nicer. Vocals are more life like, and I even get almost proper cymbals. Not something I'm used to on my fullrange speakers and countless cheap amp boards
Hi Chris,
Measure the carrier frequency as the ripple frequency at the output filter with the amplifier inputs short-circuited (no input signal). According to the TPA3116 datasheet section 6.6, "oscillator frequency", the carrier frequency is determined by the levels of inputs AM0, AM1 and AM2. With all three inputs at GND-level, the carrier frequency is close to 400KHz.
BUT, I believe it was ICG who has particular knowledge on the chip design and told us that TPA3116 uses a PPM (Pulse Position Modulation) on top of the fixed carrier frequency. That means that a pulse may be advanced or delayed a bit compared to pure PWM modulation. But, the pulses should in average arrive according to the carrier frequency. Such PPM will change the frequency spectrum compared to pure PWM but the main component in the spectrum will remain the carrier frequency.
The only modulation principle used for class D amplifiers I am aware of that uses PFM (Pulse Frequency Modulation) is class T (Tripath) where the frequency range is rather wide. That may, however, leave some EMI (ElectroMagnetic Interference) problems.
Measure the carrier frequency as the ripple frequency at the output filter with the amplifier inputs short-circuited (no input signal). According to the TPA3116 datasheet section 6.6, "oscillator frequency", the carrier frequency is determined by the levels of inputs AM0, AM1 and AM2. With all three inputs at GND-level, the carrier frequency is close to 400KHz.
BUT, I believe it was ICG who has particular knowledge on the chip design and told us that TPA3116 uses a PPM (Pulse Position Modulation) on top of the fixed carrier frequency. That means that a pulse may be advanced or delayed a bit compared to pure PWM modulation. But, the pulses should in average arrive according to the carrier frequency. Such PPM will change the frequency spectrum compared to pure PWM but the main component in the spectrum will remain the carrier frequency.
The only modulation principle used for class D amplifiers I am aware of that uses PFM (Pulse Frequency Modulation) is class T (Tripath) where the frequency range is rather wide. That may, however, leave some EMI (ElectroMagnetic Interference) problems.
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I have an update regarding my output filter mod.
I had a chance too listen to a lot of albums I know quite well over these last few days, and the change that I notice is (you tell if science says I'm only imagining) that the mids and especially highs are much nicer. Vocals are more life like, and I even get almost proper cymbals. Not something I'm used to on my fullrange speakers and countless cheap amp boards
Hi peroz,
Chris is much better than I on audible results from modifications. My basic teaching was that the human ear is capable of detecting rather small changes in the distortion at the mid-range and low treble where sounds that where important for our survival as humans had the dominating frequencies. Our ears are not very good at detecting distortion of the low frequencies.
So if you want to improve the details of the sound, try to improve the distortion in the signal path (like in the output filter). But if you want a firm bass you can even feel, use good power decoupling capacitors such that they can supply the energy needed by the amplifier to control the full bass-driver stroke.
So what you're saying is, that there is a good chance I haven't gone completely crazy
additionlly to this correct statement i want to add that the level of speakers and the phase ( ideal = the energy of all frequencies should came at the same time) is important that the mid and high range of sound gets correct to our listening position.
helpfull is to start with left and right and move your spekaer as far away from any "backround" =table, cupboard...etc.
track 1 ,2 and very important 3 (phase check!!!!)
XLO Reference Recordings Test & Burn-In HDCD-Elusive Disc
chris
So what you're saying is, that there is a good chance I haven't gone completely crazy
Absolutely true! On top of what you can actually hear of fine nuances are psycho-audible effects that tend to let you hear what you hope to hear.
Thanks for that!
Would this be a way to give reserves when PSU amperage is not up to spec?
Hi graham
lets go from the speakers "backwards"...
if your volume knob request more power the amps should be deliver the power.
The bass burst need the most power- for this the caps should deliver inbetween a very short time the needed current if the PSU is not able to hold the voltage and deliver the needed current.
so for some power brick the requestet short time is a problem. the concept of them is to deliver constatn a current and react very bad in dynamic requests by an amp. so a big cap could help if the PSU is too weak or your party should roll
so if you need much power the "correct" way is to choose i very strong PSU.e.g. 24V 10Amps = about 250-300W and not a brick with 24V 2,5A
chris
As Chris says, the PSU has to be sufficient to supply the power needed for the amplifier.
The supply line decoupling capacitors act as local buffers for the amplifier such that the PSU only needs to supply the average energy used by the amplifier. The capacitors will collect the energy from the PSU and forward the energy to the amplifier with the current needed by the amplifier. That current may heavily exceed the current the PSU can handle but only for a short moment. Thus you are right, a poorly performing PSU may be improved with good decoupling capacitors. The bigger the capacitors, the longer they can supply the amplifier with current without loosing too much voltage.
With a very good "capacitor bank" for decoupling, you can use a PSU of half the power that is maximum demanded by the amplifier. That is due to the "crest-factor" of music and the ability of the capacitor bank to smoothen out the amplifier energy consumption to near the average consumption.
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thx FF
additionally some words.
the cap bank should not be "endless" because the regulation speed of the PSU could be a problem with big cap banks at heavy load = over swing of the voltage.
and it can happend that the cap bank is too hugh that your psu is at very first power on not able to handle this current to load the caps!!!! = ideally it goes to protection (the psu see a shurt cut) a inrush current limiter could be the next step.
but at home use..... but read here what FF wrote:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/104822-favorite-threads-posts-class-forum-2.html#post5683013
chris
additionally some words.
the cap bank should not be "endless" because the regulation speed of the PSU could be a problem with big cap banks at heavy load = over swing of the voltage.
and it can happend that the cap bank is too hugh that your psu is at very first power on not able to handle this current to load the caps!!!! = ideally it goes to protection (the psu see a shurt cut) a inrush current limiter could be the next step.
but at home use..... but read here what FF wrote:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/104822-favorite-threads-posts-class-forum-2.html#post5683013
chris