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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

High quality, class D plate amp?
High quality, class D plate amp?
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:06 PM   #1
Cableaddict is offline Cableaddict
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Default High quality, class D plate amp?

I'm considering building my own subs, for rock band / DJ use.

For various reasons, I MUST have self-powered subs, with built-in limiting.

I also require built-in HPF, for the tops. This limits selection rather severely.

I don't need fancy DSP, I can EQ from my digital mixer. - But DSP in a very high quality build would be OK, and helpful, I guess.


They must be VERY efficient. Class D is almost a necessity, though I suppose class H might work, if I ca get the boxes efficient enough.

Ideally, I'd want servo-control, but of course that may be impossible.

And finally, they must be VERY high quality, and dependable. No switching power supplies. No junk from Dayton, Bash, etc.
--------------------

So far the only candidate is the Rythmik Audio class H system, sold as a kit:

Rythmik Audio • 15" servo subwoofer FV15HP features

This might work, (building maybe three of them) but I'm very worried about power draw.



Any suggestions? I'm having a brutal time finding much esls.
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:33 PM   #2
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Speakerpower makes some great Class D plate amps, SP1-2400/4000/6000 would likely do what you want, (other than the built-in HPF for tops) and are very efficient- so little heat produced that the internal fan seldom even comes on.

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That said, I don't know of any Class D amps that do not use switching power supplies. The SP1-4000 only weighs 5 pounds, a "standard" power supply with 4000 watts output would be more like 35 pounds.

Cheers,
Art
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:38 PM   #3
Cableaddict is offline Cableaddict
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
That said, I don't know of any Class D amps that do not use switching power supplies. The SP1-4000 only weighs 5 pounds, a "standard" power supply with 4000 watts output would be more like 35 pounds.

Art
The Hypex did, (and yeah, they were about 20 lbs per mono module) evidently, but they've been discontinued.

Interesting point, though. I just checked the specs for my my Lab Gruppen fp6400's, and sure enough they use some kind of high-end "regulated" switching supply. I didn't realize this.

- those puppies do 1300w rms per side into 8 ohms, sound astoundingly good, & weigh only 21 lbs each!

- it's just that most plate amps are designed to be inexpensive, so cheap, unreliable PSU's.


- I'm glad you made me check !!!
========================


SO OK, A SWITCHING SUPPLY IS OK, as long as the amp is of very high quality.
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Old 18th February 2018, 04:12 AM   #4
nyt is offline nyt
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+1 for speakerpower for sub amps, not so much hf duty. Their switch freq is low for improved efficiency, but hf duty suffers.

Class D without smps? Good luck.
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Old 18th February 2018, 05:38 AM   #5
Windforce85 is offline Windforce85  Poland
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Hypex has just released newest NCore based plates named Fusion. They are using SMPS and they are deffinitely not junk. The junk is to waste resources (lightness and efficiency) of modern class-D topology with crappy linear power supply from half of past age installed in plate amplifier.
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Old 18th February 2018, 05:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Windforce85 View Post
Hypex has just released newest NCore based plates named Fusion. They are using SMPS and they are deffinitely not junk. The junk is to waste resources (lightness and efficiency) of modern class-D topology with crappy linear power supply from half of past age installed in plate amplifier.
They're still vaporware
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Old 18th February 2018, 05:41 AM   #7
Windforce85 is offline Windforce85  Poland
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I know but it's not supposed they suddenly start putting linear PSU inside.
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Old 18th February 2018, 07:30 PM   #8
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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I'm the designer of the Speakerpower "2400/4000/6000" class D technology.

I can say that just a single "4000" or "6000" can do a great job driving up to four 400W~1000W 8 ohm 12~18 inch LF drivers, with enough power to destroy the drivers if proper limiting is not in place. The "6000" can do 160V peak on 2 ohms (80 amperes). There is a full-range version made only on request, it gets somewhat hotter. Response is load invariant, +/-0.1dB across passband. THD of these amplifiers is similar to icepower or hypex, in a power range scaled upwards. There are versions with DSP, or with straight analog input boards, this has to be discussed with sales person. My recommendation is: either a fixed DSP solution set up by experts, or external digital crossover (or internal with remote control) to learn to tune systems by yourself.

EDIT: Some people complains that pricing for these modules is higher than for other solutions. This obeys the fact that the modules are made in a factory in Sana Ana, CA, USA. The modules are tested for audio, power and safety performance in an unit per unit basis. The same factory repairs the modules in case of problems.
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Last edited by Eva; 18th February 2018 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 18th February 2018, 09:57 PM   #9
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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One more fact I forgot to mention: Part count of these modules is in the range of 600. These are "high end" modules. There was no compromise in the amount of time invested in designing the circuits. I expended as much time as needed investigating every subject involved.
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Old 19th February 2018, 01:53 AM   #10
Cableaddict is offline Cableaddict
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva View Post
I'm the designer of the Speakerpower "2400/4000/6000" class D technology.

I can say that just a single "4000" or "6000" can do a great job driving up to four 400W~1000W 8 ohm 12~18 inch LF drivers, with enough power to destroy the drivers if proper limiting is not in place. The "6000" can do 160V peak on 2 ohms (80 amperes). There is a full-range version made only on request, it gets somewhat hotter. Response is load invariant, +/-0.1dB across passband. THD of these amplifiers is similar to icepower or hypex, in a power range scaled upwards. There are versions with DSP, or with straight analog input boards, this has to be discussed with sales person. My recommendation is: either a fixed DSP solution set up by experts, or external digital crossover (or internal with remote control) to learn to tune systems by yourself.

EDIT: Some people complains that pricing for these modules is higher than for other solutions. This obeys the fact that the modules are made in a factory in Sana Ana, CA, USA. The modules are tested for audio, power and safety performance in an unit per unit basis. The same factory repairs the modules in case of problems.

How cool is this?

Thanks for responding, Eva!

So a question, which I was going to call and ask about:

I assume the ones with DSP can do HPF on the XLR output? But DSP scares me. More stuff to fail. Plus why do dsp conversion if you don't have to? (I guess)

Since these amps are sort of "handmade to order" in the USA, can you do custom circuitry?
I'm thinking specifically of HPF on the XLF output. For me it could just be fixed at 100 Hz, though of course as a commercial product it would help to also have 80 Hz, and I guess an "off" position as well.

If you could do this, I'd strongly consider them for whatever I build next. (Or maybe the stock units are fine already, I just don't know yet.)

As for price, I'd rather pay more for quality & dependability. My Lab Gruppens were $4300 each, so this doesn't seem expensive at all by comparison.

Last edited by Cableaddict; 19th February 2018 at 01:58 AM.
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