High quality, class D plate amp?

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Cableaddict

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Joined 2016
I'm considering building my own subs, for rock band / DJ use.

For various reasons, I MUST have self-powered subs, with built-in limiting.

I also require built-in HPF, for the tops. This limits selection rather severely.

I don't need fancy DSP, I can EQ from my digital mixer. - But DSP in a very high quality build would be OK, and helpful, I guess.


They must be VERY efficient. Class D is almost a necessity, though I suppose class H might work, if I ca get the boxes efficient enough.

Ideally, I'd want servo-control, but of course that may be impossible.

And finally, they must be VERY high quality, and dependable. No switching power supplies. No junk from Dayton, Bash, etc.
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So far the only candidate is the Rythmik Audio class H system, sold as a kit:

Rythmik Audio • 15" servo subwoofer FV15HP features

This might work, (building maybe three of them) but I'm very worried about power draw.



Any suggestions? I'm having a brutal time finding much esls.
 
weltersys

weltersys

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Joined 2008
Speakerpower makes some great Class D plate amps, SP1-2400/4000/6000 would likely do what you want, (other than the built-in HPF for tops) and are very efficient- so little heat produced that the internal fan seldom even comes on.

Home

That said, I don't know of any Class D amps that do not use switching power supplies. The SP1-4000 only weighs 5 pounds, a "standard" power supply with 4000 watts output would be more like 35 pounds.

Cheers,
Art
 
C

Cableaddict

Member
Joined 2016
weltersys said:
That said, I don't know of any Class D amps that do not use switching power supplies. The SP1-4000 only weighs 5 pounds, a "standard" power supply with 4000 watts output would be more like 35 pounds.

Art
Click to expand...

The Hypex did, (and yeah, they were about 20 lbs per mono module) evidently, but they've been discontinued.

Interesting point, though. I just checked the specs for my my Lab Gruppen fp6400's, and sure enough they use some kind of high-end "regulated" switching supply. I didn't realize this.

- those puppies do 1300w rms per side into 8 ohms, sound astoundingly good, & weigh only 21 lbs each!

- it's just that most plate amps are designed to be inexpensive, so cheap, unreliable PSU's.


- I'm glad you made me check !!!
========================


SO OK, A SWITCHING SUPPLY IS OK, as long as the amp is of very high quality.
 
W

Windforce85

Member
Joined 2014
Hypex has just released newest NCore based plates named Fusion. They are using SMPS and they are deffinitely not junk. The junk is to waste resources (lightness and efficiency) of modern class-D topology with crappy linear power supply from half of past age installed in plate amplifier.
 
Eva

Eva

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Joined 2003
I'm the designer of the Speakerpower "2400/4000/6000" class D technology.

I can say that just a single "4000" or "6000" can do a great job driving up to four 400W~1000W 8 ohm 12~18 inch LF drivers, with enough power to destroy the drivers if proper limiting is not in place. The "6000" can do 160V peak on 2 ohms (80 amperes). There is a full-range version made only on request, it gets somewhat hotter. Response is load invariant, +/-0.1dB across passband. THD of these amplifiers is similar to icepower or hypex, in a power range scaled upwards. There are versions with DSP, or with straight analog input boards, this has to be discussed with sales person. My recommendation is: either a fixed DSP solution set up by experts, or external digital crossover (or internal with remote control) to learn to tune systems by yourself.

EDIT: Some people complains that pricing for these modules is higher than for other solutions. This obeys the fact that the modules are made in a factory in Sana Ana, CA, USA. The modules are tested for audio, power and safety performance in an unit per unit basis. The same factory repairs the modules in case of problems.
 
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Eva

Eva

Member
Joined 2003
One more fact I forgot to mention: Part count of these modules is in the range of 600. These are "high end" modules. There was no compromise in the amount of time invested in designing the circuits. I expended as much time as needed investigating every subject involved.
 
C

Cableaddict

Member
Joined 2016
Eva said:
I'm the designer of the Speakerpower "2400/4000/6000" class D technology.

I can say that just a single "4000" or "6000" can do a great job driving up to four 400W~1000W 8 ohm 12~18 inch LF drivers, with enough power to destroy the drivers if proper limiting is not in place. The "6000" can do 160V peak on 2 ohms (80 amperes). There is a full-range version made only on request, it gets somewhat hotter. Response is load invariant, +/-0.1dB across passband. THD of these amplifiers is similar to icepower or hypex, in a power range scaled upwards. There are versions with DSP, or with straight analog input boards, this has to be discussed with sales person. My recommendation is: either a fixed DSP solution set up by experts, or external digital crossover (or internal with remote control) to learn to tune systems by yourself.

EDIT: Some people complains that pricing for these modules is higher than for other solutions. This obeys the fact that the modules are made in a factory in Sana Ana, CA, USA. The modules are tested for audio, power and safety performance in an unit per unit basis. The same factory repairs the modules in case of problems.
Click to expand...


How cool is this?

Thanks for responding, Eva!

So a question, which I was going to call and ask about:

I assume the ones with DSP can do HPF on the XLR output? But DSP scares me. More stuff to fail. Plus why do dsp conversion if you don't have to? (I guess)

Since these amps are sort of "handmade to order" in the USA, can you do custom circuitry?
I'm thinking specifically of HPF on the XLF output. For me it could just be fixed at 100 Hz, though of course as a commercial product it would help to also have 80 Hz, and I guess an "off" position as well.

If you could do this, I'd strongly consider them for whatever I build next. (Or maybe the stock units are fine already, I just don't know yet.)

As for price, I'd rather pay more for quality & dependability. My Lab Gruppens were $4300 each, so this doesn't seem expensive at all by comparison.
 
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S

stocktrader200

Member
Joined 2008
I got mine to work at 1.3 mhz and it sounds fantastic. the only problem is it causes low level FM noise. the amp was mounted 4" away from the tuner assy so that is to be expected. rail voltage +- 45v max current 15A
THe other problem I encountered was the speed required of the overcurrent protection circuit. without this the amp will die instantly with shorts to both outputs.
AM tuned perfectly except at 1250 - 1300 khz. the self osc varies over the output power range of 0 to 20 w. it drops as low as 650khz at 100w clip.

Eva - Are you based in California ?
 
C

Cableaddict

Member
Joined 2016
UPDATE:

- For anyone following along, with a dog in this fight:

I've been looking at ICE amps, because several well-respected builders, Including JTR, are using them. - But on the Ice website, all I see are modules. No backplates (input / control panels.)

So I queried the USA Ice rep. He told me that in fact they do NOT make complete plate amps yet. (they will, at some point in the future.) He said that JTR is actually using control plates made by SpeakerPower, even though they have "ICE" screened onto them.

He said their power modules are easily as good as their own, and recommended that I go that way.

So there you go.
 
C

Cableaddict

Member
Joined 2016
Cableaddict said:
UPDATE:

- For anyone following along, with a dog in this fight:

I've been looking at ICE amps, because several well-respected builders, Including JTR, are using them. - But on the Ice website, all I see are modules. No backplates (input / control panels.)

So I queried the USA Ice rep. He told me that in fact they do NOT make complete plate amps yet. (they will, at some point in the future.) He said that JTR is actually using control plates made by SpeakerPower, even though they have "ICE" screened onto them.

He said their power modules are easily as good as their own, and recommended that I go that way.

So there you go.
Click to expand...
------------------------------

Of course, now I just read about the up-coming Hypex Fusion plate amps.

Hmmm .....
 
Eva

Eva

Member
Joined 2003
Actually, since the modules I designed (2400,3200,4000,6000) use same size as ice 1000asp and semi-compatible pinout, I think there was an upgrade program, for 3~5dB more SPL, keeping hardware for minimum cost. The limiting scheme is different too, ice modules don't have a limiter, while for the ones I mention I created a "party-proof" limiter, including also rare gadgets such as reducing signal to keep up with overheating, or reducing signal to avoid making a poor mains line sag too low.
 
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