Hi, been building speakers for a few years.demo Them In garage and sound good. Hook them to My Denon avr-591 and they sound lifeless. Bought used klipsc h floodwaters as same thing. Recently hooked up a tda7498 chinese board to chinese small 24v 10amp psh and the klipsch come to life like wow! So what is wrong with my avr? How can I get it to sound as good as the cheap chinese amp? Can I build surround sound with the tpa7498? I currently have zaph audio mains and center and Paul Carmody amigas for surrounds, powered 8inch subwoofer. How do I get great 2channel music and surround sound for movies, etc? Thanks
No help
Ok, it's a really topic. How about....why does a cheap$12 amp board sound better than my $300+ a.c. Receiver? Do I have it set up wrong? Is there a set up guide in logical English for the denon av 591. Is there a known setting tweak? Just really frustrated! I did use audysey to setup. Thanks
Ok, it's a really topic. How about....why does a cheap$12 amp board sound better than my $300+ a.c. Receiver? Do I have it set up wrong? Is there a set up guide in logical English for the denon av 591. Is there a known setting tweak? Just really frustrated! I did use audysey to setup. Thanks
By the look of it, Denon avr-591 isn't new. Components degrade over time, especially electrolytic capacitors in power supply and signal path. I have a nearly ten times more expensive amplifier that sounds dull and lifeless now, not so fifteen years ago. Changing the capacitors help a lot, but it isn't easy, and my amplifier has a reputation for breaking down easily.
Second, a amplifier like your Denon has a lot if functionality besides the power amp. A wild guess is that the power amplifiers is not much more expensive than a cheap tpa7498 board.
Third, the Chinese stuff is really cheap...
Second, a amplifier like your Denon has a lot if functionality besides the power amp. A wild guess is that the power amplifiers is not much more expensive than a cheap tpa7498 board.
Third, the Chinese stuff is really cheap...
I had a very similar experience between my old Sony DB-830 AVR and a new Tripath board I set up this past year. Even thought the Sony is caulk full of Nichicon gold tune caps it sounds terrible compared to the Tripath TK2050 amp that I A, B'd next to it. Not to mention, the Sony has developed some noise on the outputs over time as well. I may end up repurposing the Sony chassis eventually since there's no point in re-capping and replacing the mosfets to MAYBE get decent sound again. If I need an AVR any time soon I'll probably go with a component setup so I can use the AVR for signal processing only and hook up my own amps. You may want to do the same with a little army of the 7498 boards. It's sad to ditch stuff that still "works", but a great excuse to replace with new, better sounding toys! 
Thanks for the advice and information. I would like to continue with 5.1 for movies and just 2.1 for my music. Do you know of any well documented builds that would accomplish this? Need USB with ARC return tech for the tv/blueray player. Hmm, while I'm at it how about a dac/preamp? Don't have the greenbacks for a new A/V receiver. I wouldn't know what to get these days anyway? I have morphed into an audiophile because of these cheap and cheerful Chinese amps. A new project sounds good because I promised the wife that I have built my last set of speakers! ��
Hmmm, that would be an interesting project. Not sure if anyone has integrated all those features, esp. ARC, into a Hi-Fi 2 channel AND home theatre system. If it were me I would sell my old AVR on Ebay for a few bucks and find the best AVR I could afford that has pre-amp outputs for every channel. Otherwise, I think you're looking at a lot of R&D and $$$ to create your own thing. Definitley not on a 7498 budget.
A couple of years ago the $20 lepai lp-2020a allready outperformed my good old and expensive Yamaha AX-700 amp in sound quality.
Now listening for a few months to a $20 TPA3116 2.1 amp and I'm really blown away: real 2x50W+100W and the sound is so detailed, and just very NICE! And this 10oz (?) amp is more powerfull then the 25lbs Yamaha...
It runs fine with an old laptop adapter (+/- 19v >3A) The varable crossover is about 80-500hz. The solderingjob is among the best I have ever seen.
As subs are best run in mono and you can also run 2 fullrange bi-amped speakers from it.
Only 'negative' thing I've found is the noisefloor, but even with big sensitive PA speakers connected, I can hear it just a little within a foot when nothing is playing, so still good.
Now listening for a few months to a $20 TPA3116 2.1 amp and I'm really blown away: real 2x50W+100W and the sound is so detailed, and just very NICE! And this 10oz (?) amp is more powerfull then the 25lbs Yamaha...
It runs fine with an old laptop adapter (+/- 19v >3A) The varable crossover is about 80-500hz. The solderingjob is among the best I have ever seen.
As subs are best run in mono and you can also run 2 fullrange bi-amped speakers from it.
Only 'negative' thing I've found is the noisefloor, but even with big sensitive PA speakers connected, I can hear it just a little within a foot when nothing is playing, so still good.
Even though the chinese class D amps are cheap they sound good! Compared a moded tpa3116 to a very expensive Nad receiver and the tpa3116 had better bass at normal volume. Doesn't class d offer high dampening factor? You should really hear the tpa3255, its really impressive! Sounds very dynamic and has a surprisingly natural tone.
No, you're not alone. Usually it all come down to quality of construction and components, and of course personal preferences. These class-D amps sounds very good compared to most other stuff, but a well built and expensive class A of AB amp is very hard to beat.
An amplifier in a home system has to integrate well with all other equipment such as music source and speakers. In my study I have a newly renovated class AB power amp that I build twenty years ago, with fet input transistors and cmos power transistor in output stage, and it sounds fantastic there. But to soft and "tubelike" in my main system.
Ask someone you do not know, a tech related person (you have to make a new friend for this, and establish some type of exchange) to do a double-blind test for you, in such a way that you can see both amplifiers but you can't know which one is passing the signal. The trick with fancy audio products is that they use the aesthetics to connect with the spirituality of their user and manufacturing workforce, to perform visually the emotional cleaning/support process music is expected to do. It is a crucifix product, and you are a believer.
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A double blind test is exactly what you need to find out what sounds - to you - best. But: That only works if you adjust the level/output exactly. The human ear tends to prefer the louder source very quickly as 'better'.
What might be an explanation why the class-D amps often win in comparison to random A/B amps is, they often have a much better slew-rate, which means, the rise time at peaks is often better. The lack of noise when idle is also often perceived as 'better'. The interaction of the amplifier with the speaker impedance 'graces' the class-D amps sometimes with a peak at the upper end which is sometimes decepts the listener to attribute a better resolution to the class-D amp. In reality A/B amps does have advantages at impedance fluctuations in the highs. That's because they react far less to impedance changes in that range and doesn't change the frequency response like class-D does.
In the real world it condeses down to sound differences at certain speakers (because of the impedance fluctuation). That makes the prediction which will sound better pretty hard and that's also the bottom line: You can't say either is better than the other, it always depends on which setup you are using it, neither is superior per se sound wise. You simply have to try it.
If you are developing speakers or change speakers often, A/B is probably the better choice because it's much less impedance dependent. Class D got a lot of advantages (price/power/weight/size/heat) and can be superior in a fixed setup (or a setup with limited changes) but it all comes down to what you're doing and what you want.
What might be an explanation why the class-D amps often win in comparison to random A/B amps is, they often have a much better slew-rate, which means, the rise time at peaks is often better. The lack of noise when idle is also often perceived as 'better'. The interaction of the amplifier with the speaker impedance 'graces' the class-D amps sometimes with a peak at the upper end which is sometimes decepts the listener to attribute a better resolution to the class-D amp. In reality A/B amps does have advantages at impedance fluctuations in the highs. That's because they react far less to impedance changes in that range and doesn't change the frequency response like class-D does.
In the real world it condeses down to sound differences at certain speakers (because of the impedance fluctuation). That makes the prediction which will sound better pretty hard and that's also the bottom line: You can't say either is better than the other, it always depends on which setup you are using it, neither is superior per se sound wise. You simply have to try it.
If you are developing speakers or change speakers often, A/B is probably the better choice because it's much less impedance dependent. Class D got a lot of advantages (price/power/weight/size/heat) and can be superior in a fixed setup (or a setup with limited changes) but it all comes down to what you're doing and what you want.
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