"Oh, but what does scicence know about what we *feel*"
And I think someone is putting this DAC higher in the list from a subjective point of view than a properly built one without knowing why. But here it is clear why, it is full of distortion and other garbage that is not included in the original audio.
Allright, as someone that has not followed the thread, can anyone help me understand the properties of the Fusion 253?
It says in the specs:
THD(D+N) (at -1dBFS) DA -102.5
So, under the very best of conditions, the total resolution including noise floor is 102.5db.
Is there any noticeable hiss or noise when using compression drivers?
What is the idle noise on outputs?
The tweeter channel, does it come with any limitations other than reduced power output?
If I choose to do so, is it theoretically possible to use the tweeter amp for a sub?
All the outputs seem to be rated at 4ohms?
Is there any trickery in the circuits, or will the power be essentially half the rated output when used with 8ohm loads?
It says in the specs:
THD(D+N) (at -1dBFS) DA -102.5
So, under the very best of conditions, the total resolution including noise floor is 102.5db.
Is there any noticeable hiss or noise when using compression drivers?
What is the idle noise on outputs?
The tweeter channel, does it come with any limitations other than reduced power output?
If I choose to do so, is it theoretically possible to use the tweeter amp for a sub?
All the outputs seem to be rated at 4ohms?
Is there any trickery in the circuits, or will the power be essentially half the rated output when used with 8ohm loads?
Doesn' the fusion amps have the nc100hf module for tweeter? It is an add-on module for the ncxxxmp amplifiers, says datasheet.
Hypex Electronics B.V.
"The NC100HF is a dedicated tweeter-amplifier which fits the NCxxxMP series. It is a NCore amplifier that works with the NCxxxMP modules to create a second or third channel for the amplifier. It operates from the on-board SMPS of the NCxxxMP module and is compatible with the whole range. This makes it possible to build a complete NCore based system in a heartbeat.
By design, NCore has a full range frequency response and power bandwidth. However this module is
designed to be used for mid- and high frequencies only, i.e. starting at approximately 500Hz."
Datasheet says output noise voltage is 30uV for the nc100hf. I've got Chinese Sure Jab2 amp at home, it's datasheet says noise voltage is 185uV, a whoppin 16dB more. Sure Jab2 is too noisy with compression driver at home.. if it truly was 16dB below that should be ok I think.
If it is the NC250MP for the other two amps, they seem to be 130W to 8ohm. https://www.hypex.nl/documenten/download/916
ps. Never heard fusion amp, but considering buying
Hypex Electronics B.V.
"The NC100HF is a dedicated tweeter-amplifier which fits the NCxxxMP series. It is a NCore amplifier that works with the NCxxxMP modules to create a second or third channel for the amplifier. It operates from the on-board SMPS of the NCxxxMP module and is compatible with the whole range. This makes it possible to build a complete NCore based system in a heartbeat.
By design, NCore has a full range frequency response and power bandwidth. However this module is
designed to be used for mid- and high frequencies only, i.e. starting at approximately 500Hz."
Datasheet says output noise voltage is 30uV for the nc100hf. I've got Chinese Sure Jab2 amp at home, it's datasheet says noise voltage is 185uV, a whoppin 16dB more. Sure Jab2 is too noisy with compression driver at home.. if it truly was 16dB below that should be ok I think.
If it is the NC250MP for the other two amps, they seem to be 130W to 8ohm. https://www.hypex.nl/documenten/download/916
ps. Never heard fusion amp, but considering buying
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Thanks guys.
Just noticed they claim 200w/channel in 8ohms? + 100w in any load for the HF, but limited to >500hz.
Nice noise figures overall.
The 253 is about 440€ each, so two = 880€ + taxes, shipping and such, so it very quickly goes up to around 1200€ perhaps a tiny bit more.
I do have a pre stage that can be used, just wondering if it might not be better to get some PA gear instead, I do not really need any more amps this very instant, just looking at options for next year.
Just noticed they claim 200w/channel in 8ohms? + 100w in any load for the HF, but limited to >500hz.
Nice noise figures overall.
The 253 is about 440€ each, so two = 880€ + taxes, shipping and such, so it very quickly goes up to around 1200€ perhaps a tiny bit more.
I do have a pre stage that can be used, just wondering if it might not be better to get some PA gear instead, I do not really need any more amps this very instant, just looking at options for next year.
The Fusion amps do not really need a pre stage. You need to connect analog connections to each of them, and then connect the two together with an spdif connection. Add a remote kit, and you can control both volume and input selection.
Johan-Kr
This is probably the one design flaw that’s keeping me from pulling the trigger on a pair of these. It would be great if the digital signal coming out of the master’s ADC was synced along with the control signals to the slaves through the spdif. I’ve got some pre run coax I can use for the spdif distribution but would have to run xlrs to distribute the analog.
Hi Frederik!
I compared the analog and digital inputs earlier and I wrote that I could not hear the difference between the two connections, but only after a brief listening (which was not even set to the same sound level) did I come to this conclusion.
Recently, I did a level-matched test, and I found an improvement in clarity with digital connection. But this is only for one channel, as I would need a digital coax cable of at least 3 meters to connect two Fusionamps together, but I think I will try the stereo mode soon.
In fact, it is not fair to compare the two connections, since the analog input is more heavily dependent on the analog device before Fusionamp, which can easily push its properties to the sound.
Otherwise, both modes work fine and I use analog for the time being, because Fusionamp has too few digital inputs for me, don't have the remote and I am a little afraid that the volume might be reset to digital 0 when I turn it on without noticing it on time.
Anyway I, too, would be curious as to what others experience is.
Dear Community,
is it possible to connect following drivers to a Hypex FusionAmp FA123 Unit?
- Two Visaton TIW 250 XS Bass Drivers (each driver having 8 Ohm Impedance) connected to the same Output cable of the FusionAmp Channel 1
- Two Visaton TIW 250 XS Bass Drivers (each driver having 8 Ohm Impedance) connected to the same Output cable of the FusionAmp Channel 2
Or should each driver have it's own FusionAmp Channel?
This closed cabinet should be a subwoofer module for floor standing speakers. It should deliver good and linear SPL from 30 Hz to 80 Hz.
The frequency response in a 80 liter closed cabinet looks good according to the program "Boxsim" which is a simulation program for speaker design from Visaton.
Thank you very much,
George from Berlin
is it possible to connect following drivers to a Hypex FusionAmp FA123 Unit?
- Two Visaton TIW 250 XS Bass Drivers (each driver having 8 Ohm Impedance) connected to the same Output cable of the FusionAmp Channel 1
- Two Visaton TIW 250 XS Bass Drivers (each driver having 8 Ohm Impedance) connected to the same Output cable of the FusionAmp Channel 2
Or should each driver have it's own FusionAmp Channel?
This closed cabinet should be a subwoofer module for floor standing speakers. It should deliver good and linear SPL from 30 Hz to 80 Hz.
The frequency response in a 80 liter closed cabinet looks good according to the program "Boxsim" which is a simulation program for speaker design from Visaton.
Thank you very much,
George from Berlin
If you connect parallel each pair of drivers, you get 4 Ohm nominal impedance for each channel so i don't see any problem with this.
You realise that all channels of a single FusionAmp get their signal via the DSP from the same input signal: L, R or L+R ? For stereo you will need two FusionAmps.
Dear community,
just another general question about the gain you can apply on different stages. How do you ensure that the unit does not go into internal clipping regarding the DSP processing itself?
For example in the top panel of HFD you can adjust the gain for each amplifier channel. Does this mean i can put +8 dB level on the bass driver and adjust the mid and high range according to it? And how much can i push the level with filters for example placing a filter at 30 Hz with +6 to +12 dB gain without driving the DSP into any clipping? And you can push the Inputs for the preset level alignment itself, too. I just want to be sure that i don't overdrive the signal processing into clipping.
I couldn't find any information in the manual about the overall range that needs to be considered.
Thank you very much,
George
just another general question about the gain you can apply on different stages. How do you ensure that the unit does not go into internal clipping regarding the DSP processing itself?
For example in the top panel of HFD you can adjust the gain for each amplifier channel. Does this mean i can put +8 dB level on the bass driver and adjust the mid and high range according to it? And how much can i push the level with filters for example placing a filter at 30 Hz with +6 to +12 dB gain without driving the DSP into any clipping? And you can push the Inputs for the preset level alignment itself, too. I just want to be sure that i don't overdrive the signal processing into clipping.
I couldn't find any information in the manual about the overall range that needs to be considered.
Thank you very much,
George
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Ok boys and girls, today I did a longer analogue vs. digital input comparative listening test with Fusionamps in stereo mode now. The volume level was set exactly relative to each other, fortunately the HFD can be set to tenths of dB, which was needed.
The analog input chain was: PC with JRiver (Wasapi, ASIO) -> NAD C510 USB Input, XLR Output -> FA XLR Input
And the digital input chain was: PC with JRiver (Wasapi) -> Onboard Realtek S/PDIF out -> FA S/PDIF in
Later, I used a Pioneer BDP-LX58 player as a source instead of a PC.
As expected, the test was won by the digital input in this case.
At the analogue input, slight veiling was observed compared to the digital input. On the other hand, the digital input has come with tiny, subtle details combined with richness that has made reproduction more meaningful. The bass sounds seemed to go deeper and had a better resolution with a better attack. The mid and treble tones were more open, detailed, richer and airier.
The analog input chain presentation was slightly flatter.
I do not know what could be the main reason for the weaker performance of the analog chain. Maybe the NAD, or the analog interconnect (Klotz+Neutrik star-quad cable), or the FA ADC circuitry, but more likely, all of these.
By the way, both chains sound good, but the digital was clearly better in this setup, which I'm not too happy with because Fusionamp, as I mentioned, has few digital inputs for me (there could be at least one additional USB input) and nothing except the HFD informs you of the current volume and input.
Welcome MiniDSP SHD (Studio)?
The analog input chain was: PC with JRiver (Wasapi, ASIO) -> NAD C510 USB Input, XLR Output -> FA XLR Input
And the digital input chain was: PC with JRiver (Wasapi) -> Onboard Realtek S/PDIF out -> FA S/PDIF in
Later, I used a Pioneer BDP-LX58 player as a source instead of a PC.
As expected, the test was won by the digital input in this case.
At the analogue input, slight veiling was observed compared to the digital input. On the other hand, the digital input has come with tiny, subtle details combined with richness that has made reproduction more meaningful. The bass sounds seemed to go deeper and had a better resolution with a better attack. The mid and treble tones were more open, detailed, richer and airier.
The analog input chain presentation was slightly flatter.
I do not know what could be the main reason for the weaker performance of the analog chain. Maybe the NAD, or the analog interconnect (Klotz+Neutrik star-quad cable), or the FA ADC circuitry, but more likely, all of these.
By the way, both chains sound good, but the digital was clearly better in this setup, which I'm not too happy with because Fusionamp, as I mentioned, has few digital inputs for me (there could be at least one additional USB input) and nothing except the HFD informs you of the current volume and input.
Welcome MiniDSP SHD (Studio)?