I haven't measured the FA503, however the FA252 I measured 0.005% THD+N at 1 watt dominated by the noise floor and 0.003% THD+N at 100w mostly of 2+3HD. IMD was quite low as well. CH2 did have a little extra noise due to the routing of the ribbon cable over a transformer, however it was still very low level.
Perhaps take some measurements to illustrate what you're seeing? Maybe there's a bug in the dsp for the FA503.
Perhaps take some measurements to illustrate what you're seeing? Maybe there's a bug in the dsp for the FA503.
I am not a Hypex representative.
In HFD at 'Device settings' there is preset volume offsets for each preset, might worth to check that.
If your preset 2 and 3 doesn't work as it should, then you have to make use of the warranty.
My FAs works great with only minor software bugs that are not affect the functionality.
I'm not sure how to measure THD on an amplifier. As far as a frequency response goes, it won't show what I'm hearing as far as the dull, muffled sound I'm referring to goes, the speakers measure relatively flat. What I hear with these amps is almost like comparing an MP3 to FLAC when I listen to different speakers using my Carver amplifier, but thru the same B&K preamp, and using the same Bluesound for the music (a lot more dynamic and larger soundstage). If you're referring to the response of the speakers, the response for these speakers is flat (in preset 1)… I suppose I can measure preset 2 and 3 and show those.
I have not tried the digital in, but I would need some sort of splitter since I only have one digital out on my preamp, I also don't have a digital cable long enough to reach, but I could move something and just try one to see if that makes a difference over using XLR.
I checked the volume offsets when I first had this issue. I do not remember where I have them set, but I do know they're all set the same, which is why I know something is wrong. But it is a software issue, because it does the same thing with both amplifiers. Except the one amp, occasionally that one will sit idle, and the green light will flash like it doesn't have a signal (all while the other amp is playing so I know it has a signal). The only way to make this stop is to run thru the presets, back to preset one, then the light quits flashing and the amp starts playing.
So aside from the blinking light... I think the preset issue is software related, not amplifier related, so I do not think sending these for warranty will fix that.
Just trying to understand what you are comparing with - so are you saying you are comparing to not just a different amp/dsp, but also a different speaker? How have you matched levels?
Julf, I'm not sure if you are the person I've been emailing at Hypex (assuming you are from Hypex based on your location). I will preface my answer by stating that when I originally emailed you guys, if instead of trying to treat me like an imbecile you simply admitted that you've had software issues we probably could have moved forward a lot easier than we have.
1. Figuring out how to simply update to the newest version of the software took more time than it should have.
2. Figuring out where to find the firmware update for the amps (that you absolutely need to fix obvious problems with the amps) took more time than it should have. And subsequently, eventually learning that you need these updates to fix all the issues I was having would have saved me a LOT of time in the beginning.
3. I had to install the firmware 2 times on one of the amps. The first time I installed the firmware update it seemed to work for a little while, but then one of the amps began shutting off at low volumes (the other amp kept working), and to get it to turn back on I had to either turn the volume way up again, or run through the presets. In addition to this, it also almost immediately would start blinking after I paused a track (like it was going idle way too quickly). It was yesterday that (I hope) I fixed this issue, by just reloading the firmware. Hopefully this issue doesn't come back again.
4. Regarding the difference between presets 1, 2 and 3, I'm not sure about whether the DSP settings are changing on this yet because I have not had time to measure the frequency response on all 3 presets, but I can absolutely say that at a minimum, even if I select "load all presets", preset one always loads fine, but 2 and 3 are very much louder. So if I select "preset one", it sounds the way it should, but when I press the button to move it to preset 2, it will be at least 3 db louder (maybe even more than 3 db, just guessing).
Now as far as your question goes... I can level match using my decibel meter. But no, this is not a proper "ABX" comparison by any stretch, I really have no way to do that with these speakers because the ones I'm working on right now using your amps are active, and the only other speakers I have in the same location are passive. But, I don't need to ABX these to know what I'm hearing.
Yesterday I played around with this quite a bit. I went back to full active, I eliminated the passive network I had between the mid and tweeter, and am again using all 3 channels and the DSP for everything (aside from using a 20uF cap for tweeter protection). I have them sounding as good active as they did passive now, but they still need some work. But, I do not expect you to help me understand active loudspeaker design, I fully understand what I'm doing here... aside from learning how this works in the Hypex software. The Hypex DSP software definitely has a learning curve coming from using MiniDSP and/or DBX. Nothing is spelled out and it appears that there really are only 2 options for a roll-off unless I use PEQ with my roll-off, so all I can do to figure out what roll-off I have (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc) is to measure the response and do the math.
What I would like is for someone to explain why I cannot get the presets to properly load. At a minimum, even if I load all presets, preset 2 and 3 are substantially louder than preset one. Why is this??
On a side note, if anyone is interested and if I can get these speakers done (time is short though), I will be bringing them to the Iowa show this October.
No, I am not from Hypex. I am based in Amsterdam, Hypex is based in Groningen, a very different part of the country.
I wish I could get $1 for every person who states that...
Haha, I agree... kind of. I can admit that a lot of the issues I'm having might very well be because my xover still needs work. The MAJOR problem though is all the glitchy software issues I'm legitimately having that hinder/hault progress in xover design. And those issues lead to me wondering if my sound quality issues are related to an issue in the software, or an issue with my design. I agree that trying to figure out if (for example) boutique capacitors make a difference in sound quality you need a ABX test, but in this instance I do know what I'm hearing. And regardless, I have no way to ABX this anyhow because I have no way to A/B my 2 channel amplifer with the Hypex other than unplug one amp from the preamp, and plug the other one in. By the time you do that you've pretty much lost your "acoustic memory", so it wouldn't be a fair test. Not to mention it wouldn't be a scientific AB/X test anyhow, because you aren't just swapping amps, I'd be swapping amps, speakers, and an active xover vs a passive.
I think you are barking at the wrong tree:
1. I am not working at Hypex
2. I do external betatesting and consulting for Hypex
3. I had a lot of involvement in the design of HFD and the Fusion range.
4. You did not talk to me.
5. See my avatar...
The Fusion has a lot functionality ( more than any other product) and more is in development. This complexity is a pain in the *** to develop a GUI.
That's why several function are split in different screens:
Control panel
Device settings
Filter design
About the presets. The 3 presets can be used for:
a. Different filter curves
b. Input selection
c. Gain adjustment between presets.
d. A combination of a b and c
a. is done in filterdesigner
b. is done in the control panel
c. is done in device settings.
Something about the presets in Filterdesigner. You need to copy preset 1 to 2 and 3 ( drop down in the topbar) and edit them to your preferences. Otherwise you wil load a flat filter to the Fusion...
And yes, there are some software glitches. Not caused by software problems in the Fusion, Delphi (used for the pc software) has some strange bugs....
will there be:
1. FIR filters?
2. multiband limiter?
3. Dynamic EQ (SPL/limiter based)?
(using fouraudio right now, which is SHARC based)
Thank you! That is what I did not understand. I can get "preset 2" to load from filterdesigner, but I do see it loads a flat, no filter file. I think it should be known that these are all running full range, so a cap on a tweeter is a must. This is what I was hearing when I switched presets. And the "load all presets" option is not functional, because it never works.
I will try "copy preset 1 to 2 and 3" that you suggested. Hopefully this works because otherwise I'm at zero if I want to program preset 2 or 3, starting over on a filter design. I was hoping to just manipulate some tweeter attenuation a little differently in each of the presets.
Also, I understand that this is difficult to design software, but a better tutorial that explained that there might be some "software issues" along the way would have at least prepared me for this. Couple that with the guy at Hypex basically arguing with me... didn't make this any easier.
Thanks again, I got it to work. In the dropdown, I had to copy preset 1 to 2. But just doing that does not load it. I then had to select "load filter to DSP", once I did that it loaded preset 2 with the same filters as preset 1. Next I will try to manipulate preset 2, save it as a different file, and load that to preset 2. Hopefully it will save preset one as it was originally, and load the new preset so I can switch and compare the differences.
Curious if anyone can answer this regarding the DSP... Say I want to pull the whole response down 1.5 db between 2khz and 9khz (not saying I do but it's a good example)... the only way I can figure out how to do this is to first pad the tweeter network, then I have to go into the midrange and pad that as well. Is there a way to PEQ or GEQ all 3 channels in the amp the same? Hope this makes sense.
In the DBX Driverack, the xover only manages the individual channels on the DSP. But if you used the PEQ or GEQ function, it managed all the output channels. The Hypex software does not have a regular xover section, PEQ section, or GEQ section, it's only under each of the individual channels the amp has that you can make adjustments. Am I missing something or is this just the way it is?
In the DBX Driverack, the xover only manages the individual channels on the DSP. But if you used the PEQ or GEQ function, it managed all the output channels. The Hypex software does not have a regular xover section, PEQ section, or GEQ section, it's only under each of the individual channels the amp has that you can make adjustments. Am I missing something or is this just the way it is?
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There is no global EQ in HFD (yet?) , it strictly work as a crossover, but you can EQ to your desired response if you want, because the filter section is based on PEQ.
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mattsk8, two things you might want to explore. You only need one spdif output from your pre, you then daisy chain that signal to the second amp. You need to tell each amp if it is a left channel or a right channel amp.
Secondly, get yourself a suitable usb soundcard and do your measurements through HFD. The way this works is a little odd by my way of thinking, but you can quickly get superb results. There doesn't seem to be a way you can verify the final results in a single measurement. You just have to trust the simulation, which works.
I've used FA253 and FA503 amps in many projects and apart from power level don't notice any differences between them. Their technical performance is exemplary. The HFD software will teach you a few new swear words along the way, but it will get the job done in a not so intuitive manner.
Secondly, get yourself a suitable usb soundcard and do your measurements through HFD. The way this works is a little odd by my way of thinking, but you can quickly get superb results. There doesn't seem to be a way you can verify the final results in a single measurement. You just have to trust the simulation, which works.
I've used FA253 and FA503 amps in many projects and apart from power level don't notice any differences between them. Their technical performance is exemplary. The HFD software will teach you a few new swear words along the way, but it will get the job done in a not so intuitive manner.
Every alteration you make has to be loaded into the dsp!
No need to make seperate files for the presets. You can select the preset you want to alter at the preset drop down. All preset files are saved in the project file.