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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

The New Hypex Fusion Plate amps
The New Hypex Fusion Plate amps
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:37 AM   #1451
YSDR is offline YSDR  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbowatch2 View Post
If someone tells me "there is no audible difference between stand allone DAC´s" he disqualifies for any further HIFI discussion.
It is like "there is no sound differrence between loudspeakers with identical frequency response".

If I read about all the problems with these hypex plate amps, I start to question why I should buy such an expensive product. They do not work as advertised, quality control does not work /exist, the manual is crap, the service has no answers to logical questions /problems. The company publicates, it sells to private customers only because of pure kindness, even as they are second class/ unwanted.


Seems I´m better of with some self combined Chinese parts 1/5 the price. The comunity of world wide users is the best service department available, reachable 24/7.

Just my private thought´s...
Of course, there is a difference, otherwise how would they be able to sell more expensive products. But a good-sounding (read audible transparent) DAC can be produced cheaply these days.

I do not think it is a news that the difference between DACs over speakers (or even amplifiers) is so small that it is almost insignificant, especially when you consider that a speaker is needed anyway, which in addition obscures the minimal non-linearities or distortions come from a decently built DAC, if you think you could hear it at all.

Otherwise, if you think that Hypex products are not good enough, then feel free to buy Chinese at a fraction of the price, as you mentioned, what's the problem?

Just my thoughts.

Last edited by YSDR; 14th August 2019 at 07:00 AM.
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:10 AM   #1452
ds23man is offline ds23man  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by pos View Post
This is just a parameter to take into account when generating the coefficients, I am sure John would have no problem handling this in REW with a custom filter target...

Adding to that, most online and spreadsheet biquad calculators let you set the sampling rate, so not a problem at all.
Of course it can be done, but not all users have the knowledge to use it and it can be a pain in the *** for the support department. And if someone fool- up the numbers it is possible the dsp blow up the drivers.

Sometime it's wise not to implement a function...
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Old 15th August 2019, 01:17 AM   #1453
_henry_ is offline _henry_  Australia
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Some of us prefer to trust evidence rather than beliefs.
If you have not heard of the evidence then it cant be the conclusion.

If you have never heard differences and improvements between cheap dacs and expensive dacs, it does not mean that it is not better.

If you mean by evidence is data churned by measurements equipmen only and dismissing the objective and subjective listening test, then perhaps the conclusion is only halfway.

Peace 😁
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Old 15th August 2019, 05:56 AM   #1454
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by _henry_ View Post
If you have not heard of the evidence then it cant be the conclusion.

Ever heard of Russell's Teapot?


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If you mean by evidence is data churned by measurements equipmen only and dismissing the objective and subjective listening test, then perhaps the conclusion is only halfway.
Why would I dismiss proper, controlled, double-blind ABX listening tests? Do you have results of any to share with us?
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Old 15th August 2019, 06:34 AM   #1455
_henry_ is offline _henry_  Australia
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Ever heard of Russell's Teapot?



Why would I dismiss proper, controlled, double-blind ABX listening tests? Do you have results of any to share with us?
Its hard to debate about this on the web forum. However logically if there’s really NOTHING to differentiate $100 and $2000 product, why would anyone invest/risk their money, effort and time to build those stuff?

Its easy to dismissed any opinion on the forum, and even more convenient to ask for the “ABX” etc proof as a blanket defensive statement. I would not further this discussion other than to say if you have never experience HUGE differences between DACs then you’re missing out to have a great musical experience.
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Old 15th August 2019, 06:43 AM   #1456
cowanaudio is offline cowanaudio  Australia
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The New Hypex Fusion Plate amps
Quote:
Originally Posted by _henry_ View Post
if there’s really NOTHING to differentiate $100 and $2000 product, why would anyone invest/risk their money, effort and time to build those stuff?
It's merely jewellery. There is value in that, like all exclusive/designer wares. Just don't get caught in the trap of thinking you could hear the difference between a competent $100 DAC and a $10K one in any form of meaningful test. Our ears are not very good at some things and our brain is superb at filling in the missing information (from all our senses).
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Old 15th August 2019, 06:48 AM   #1457
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by _henry_ View Post
Its hard to debate about this on the web forum.

Why? I think it is pretty easy to exchange rational arguments and evidence.


Quote:
However logically if there’s really NOTHING to differentiate $100 and $2000 product, why would anyone invest/risk their money, effort and time to build those stuff?
Ever heard of "luxury market" and "marketing"?


Quote:
Its easy to dismissed any opinion on the forum, and even more convenient to ask for the “ABX” etc proof as a blanket defensive statement. I would not further this discussion other than to say if you have never experience HUGE differences between DACs then you’re missing out to have a great musical experience.
It should also be easy to present proof instead of subjective opinions. If you have never done a proper, controlled, level-matched double-blind ABX test, then you’re missing out on a great (and eye-opening) life experience (and electing to go for faith and belief rather than science).


There is nothing wrong with personal, subjective preferences and beliefs - just don't make unsubstantiated claims based on them.
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Old 15th August 2019, 09:12 AM   #1458
Turbowatch2 is offline Turbowatch2  Germany
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I think finally I´m convinced:
There is no audible difference between a cheap and expensive DAC. OK. Just as there is none between an expensive N-core or what ever Hypex amp (just the price and hype are different) and some 15 Euro China D-amp. Hypex is just more luxury...
Now I got it. Always wondered how they could improve on the only perfect, final amp by developing an more perfect, even more final amp. I bet they will market a new improved core-amp next year, which they say is even better than the last.
That´s what some experts have been saying for years: amp´s measure the same, so they sound the same. What you can not measure, but believe is there is pure imagination and clever marketing.
Some people just love to spent more money and Hypex is so kind to take it.
So I can keep my cheap ICE amps and don´t miss anything by not having any Hypex at home.
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Old 15th August 2019, 09:17 AM   #1459
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Turbowatch2 View Post
That´s what some experts have been saying for years: amp´s measure the same, so they sound the same.

Nice straw man. Just be careful it doesn't catch fire.
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Old 15th August 2019, 06:26 PM   #1460
YSDR is offline YSDR  Europe
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A sligthly off-topic but funny, this DAC is still good for the human ear despite the awful measurement results, ohh for over a ridiculous 13.000 Euro.

Review and Measurements of Totaldac d1-six DAC | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
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