This is my first post. Greetings to the forum 
Im planing to buy one of the best nearfiled monitor of the market: Amphion One15.
My first option is to buy the matched amp Amphion N100. It's based on Anaview AMS1000 and there are some opinions that affirm to beat NC400.
But this amp is 1000€ and i will be out of money after buying the loudspeakers.
So i need to choose to wait time to save more money and go best option (AMS1000 or NC400) or find a cheaper way to have a power amp now.
If i choose to don't wait, I have a 200€ to buy/build a cheap class D amplifier and the first option that get my attention is the IRS2092.
In specification even it could be compared with the high end amps:
THD :0,1%
Frequency Response: +/- 1dB
After reading a lot i could understand that the high end class D amps can be load independent because their final stage doesn't negative interact too much with the loadspeaker.. but ..
- How much important is the load independence in terms of audio quality? This justify the price gap?
- In terms of specifications (THD and Frequency response) the IRS2092 can beat the more expensive NC400 or AMS1000.. so what is the trick? They have more qualities that aren't not measurable?
And the final question is, what will you do? wait to save more money or buy now a cheap IRS2092 solution like this: Finished IRAUD350 Class D Power amplifier IRS2092 IRFB4227 300W+300W CL-143 | eBay
Thank you guys!!
Im planing to buy one of the best nearfiled monitor of the market: Amphion One15.
My first option is to buy the matched amp Amphion N100. It's based on Anaview AMS1000 and there are some opinions that affirm to beat NC400.
But this amp is 1000€ and i will be out of money after buying the loudspeakers.
So i need to choose to wait time to save more money and go best option (AMS1000 or NC400) or find a cheaper way to have a power amp now.
If i choose to don't wait, I have a 200€ to buy/build a cheap class D amplifier and the first option that get my attention is the IRS2092.
In specification even it could be compared with the high end amps:
THD :0,1%
Frequency Response: +/- 1dB
After reading a lot i could understand that the high end class D amps can be load independent because their final stage doesn't negative interact too much with the loadspeaker.. but ..
- How much important is the load independence in terms of audio quality? This justify the price gap?
- In terms of specifications (THD and Frequency response) the IRS2092 can beat the more expensive NC400 or AMS1000.. so what is the trick? They have more qualities that aren't not measurable?
And the final question is, what will you do? wait to save more money or buy now a cheap IRS2092 solution like this: Finished IRAUD350 Class D Power amplifier IRS2092 IRFB4227 300W+300W CL-143 | eBay
Thank you guys!!
Depends on the load impedance
If it varies a lot with frequency, it will have an effect.
That is something only you can decide.
The nc400 has a max THD *and IMD* of 0.002% over the whole 20-20k frequency range, and a frequency response of +0/-0.5 dB over the same range. I don't think the IRS2092 is in the same league. But where the nc400 really shines is dealing with difficult loads.
I would try to get to try the IRS2092-based amp with your speakers. It is probably more than good enough, but again, the only one that can say if it sounds good to you or not (and how much money that is worth to you) is you yourself.
Try to read this thread I do not have first experience with Markus design aka Chocoholic but the measurement is very good and one member has the first proto (ASTX) may be you can ask him how the amp sound.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/255046-systemd-liteamp.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/255046-systemd-liteamp.html
Thanks a lot for the answer Julf.
Please correct me if i understood well. I guess the load dependance finally translates to frequency response and THD over frequency. If we focus first in the frequency response and we looking at the next specification:
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/NC400_datasheet.pdf
It says that frequency variation is +0dB/-3dB: That means 3dB of variation over all the spectrum.
In the other hand if the specification of the product of the next link is right. The variation of the frequency response is 1dB. (IR doesnt give you this variation in their datasheets )
Finished IRAUD350 Class D Power amplifier IRS2092 IRFB4227 300W+300W CL-143 | eBay
Im going to asume that 0.1% is a very good average of THD event not hearing perceptible in audiophile , then, both solutiones can achieve this performance.
But then, i am even more confused
I understand that both solutions are in different leagues according to price and what people says.. But i want to understand how this differences translates to measurables numbers. Just for the 0.002% vs 0.1% in THD?
But this question make me think other question: AMS1000 says 0.1%THD in their datasheets and there are people in A/B listening saying that AMS1000 sounds better than NC400. This make me think how important is THD below a threshold (say for example this 0.1%)
So, if i want a the more neutral and the more high fidelity amp, and i only have this two numbers: (Frequency ripple and THD), and this numbers are:
3dB vs 1dB [F. Response]
0.002% vs 0.1% [THD]
How i can achieve that one solution is much more butter than other, and justify to be x7 priced?
There are other measurable data i'm losing?
Depends on the load impedance
If it varies a lot with frequency, it will have an effect.
That is something only you can decide.
Please correct me if i understood well. I guess the load dependance finally translates to frequency response and THD over frequency. If we focus first in the frequency response and we looking at the next specification:
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/NC400_datasheet.pdf
It says that frequency variation is +0dB/-3dB: That means 3dB of variation over all the spectrum.
In the other hand if the specification of the product of the next link is right. The variation of the frequency response is 1dB. (IR doesnt give you this variation in their datasheets
)Finished IRAUD350 Class D Power amplifier IRS2092 IRFB4227 300W+300W CL-143 | eBay
Im going to asume that 0.1% is a very good average of THD event not hearing perceptible in audiophile , then, both solutiones can achieve this performance.
But then, i am even more confused
I understand that both solutions are in different leagues according to price and what people says.. But i want to understand how this differences translates to measurables numbers. Just for the 0.002% vs 0.1% in THD?
But this question make me think other question: AMS1000 says 0.1%THD in their datasheets and there are people in A/B listening saying that AMS1000 sounds better than NC400. This make me think how important is THD below a threshold (say for example this 0.1%)
So, if i want a the more neutral and the more high fidelity amp, and i only have this two numbers: (Frequency ripple and THD), and this numbers are:
3dB vs 1dB [F. Response]
0.002% vs 0.1% [THD]
How i can achieve that one solution is much more butter than other, and justify to be x7 priced?
There are other measurable data i'm losing?
IMO, if you want to use Class-D then you should buy the best you can afford. It is hard to get low distortion from a Class-D amp at all power levels, it takes quality components, serious design skill and good quality control in manufacturing. For cheap Class-D amps they usually print the lowest distortion figure they can find anywhere within the amp's frequency and power range.
If you want a budget amp now, I would recommend you get a LM3886 chipamp type of solution and just put up with the reduced power output.
If you want a budget amp now, I would recommend you get a LM3886 chipamp type of solution and just put up with the reduced power output.
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check out the crown xls series. A lot of buzz about them outperforming amps at big multiples of their cost. There are several in the series, and they sell for around $400....
Ncore is still the standard in class d. Anaview and Pascal offer quality products. Personal preference and system synergy will play the deciding factors in which is "best" for you.
Ncore is still the standard in class d. Anaview and Pascal offer quality products. Personal preference and system synergy will play the deciding factors in which is "best" for you.
I've read the whole thread, but this focused to 2x50w amp.
I need more headroom: 2x100w.
Thank you anyway
Yes, -3 dB at 50 kHz. If you look at the actual graph, you see that 20 kHz is at -0.5 dB (and the whole frequency deviation is a benign, smooth HF decay).
That variation does *not* include frequency response deviations caused by load impedance variations - they are into a constant load.
Yes, if that 0.1% is over the whole frequency range, and not just 1 kHz. Hypex specifies 0.002% over the whole 20-20k range. The IRAUD350 seems to only specify the THD at 1kHz.
Again, let's make sure we talk about 0.1% over the whole audible frequency range.
You can't justify it based on just those numbers. The only real justification is which one sounds better to *you* (we all have different preferences), and how much that difference (if any) is worth to you.
Yes, primarily IM and THD over the whole frequency range. In class D, SID is sometimes a concern.
FWIW - I wouldn't get too carried away with numbers. I bought Anaview ALC0300-1300. Soon after they announced AMS series. I thought, should I be disappointed that I missed out? NO!. I am delighted with the amplifiers I have. Build is heavy, quality. Bass sounds great - I can distinguish the notes on a bass guitar & tell it from an upright bass. I can hear the attack of a drum beat. For the first time I realised Neneh Cherry was singing "Golden Ring" and not "Golden Rain". I suspect my listening room will have a bigger effect on frequency response than the amplifier. Noise? No low noise amplifier will stop the rain pattering on the window or next doors TV being too loud. I guess I'll never know if AMS or Hypex would sound better to me but I no longer worry about it.
I'm not saying you shouldn't choose an Ncore, just consider that the rest of your system would have to be in the same league and remember the most important part - the music you listen to (you can buy an awful lot of CDs for the price of a couple of amps).
I'm not saying you shouldn't choose an Ncore, just consider that the rest of your system would have to be in the same league and remember the most important part - the music you listen to (you can buy an awful lot of CDs for the price of a couple of amps).
IRS2092
Any design such as IR propose which uses pre filter feedback WILL BE load dependent in terms of frequency response.
The IR designs are optimized for a pure resistive load of 4 ohms using a 22micro Henry coil with a 0.47mfd capacitor.
Not may speakers that are pure resistive. Therefore your HF response is all over the place.
Damping factor is poor as all you have is a series impedance (The coil) with your speaker. I am not a fan of high damping factor as it is pointless but the bottom end of these amps sounds flabby
Any design such as IR propose which uses pre filter feedback WILL BE load dependent in terms of frequency response.
The IR designs are optimized for a pure resistive load of 4 ohms using a 22micro Henry coil with a 0.47mfd capacitor.
Not may speakers that are pure resistive. Therefore your HF response is all over the place.
Damping factor is poor as all you have is a series impedance (The coil) with your speaker. I am not a fan of high damping factor as it is pointless but the bottom end of these amps sounds flabby
Thank you all guys for the answer.
Just a few ideas since i opened this thread.
-The relation between price/improvement in Audio is logaritmic. Sometimes you arrive to the point that you need to expend x8 money to get just x2 in quality.
-After studying all the alternatives i choose to go with two AMS100 2x50w with BTL setup to get to 2x100W. For me is the best buy now in price/quality. http://www.anaview.com/sites/defaul...review/public/modules/image/PDS AMS0100-I.pdf
-You have to attack always the weak point of ALL the entire audio elements in the chain including acousting conditioning of your room. Whats the point to get a +1/-1dB audio amp response when you have +/-12 dB in the frequency response due to cancellations. (that was my case).
I just made a order to Profusion to get this modules. They were out of stock of this rare 17 pins connector, so i don't know yet what to do to make a clean construction of the amp.
Just a few ideas since i opened this thread.
-The relation between price/improvement in Audio is logaritmic. Sometimes you arrive to the point that you need to expend x8 money to get just x2 in quality.
-After studying all the alternatives i choose to go with two AMS100 2x50w with BTL setup to get to 2x100W. For me is the best buy now in price/quality. http://www.anaview.com/sites/defaul...review/public/modules/image/PDS AMS0100-I.pdf
-You have to attack always the weak point of ALL the entire audio elements in the chain including acousting conditioning of your room. Whats the point to get a +1/-1dB audio amp response when you have +/-12 dB in the frequency response due to cancellations. (that was my case).
I just made a order to Profusion to get this modules. They were out of stock of this rare 17 pins connector, so i don't know yet what to do to make a clean construction of the amp.
Sure - but will the differences be audible? I guess it depends on how sensitive your speakers are.
I think you made a very wise choice! Those modules have a very high spec and price/performance ratio.
And specs don't tell everything... there has been a serious comparison of these little modules against the famous Ncore NC400, and guess which was the preference? In any case, they seem to be some of the top performers currently available.
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