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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

TPA3116D2 Amp
TPA3116D2 Amp
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Old 23rd August 2020, 03:39 PM   #11551
walpha is offline walpha
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i'm wondering if it is possible to connect a switch between pin 21 (bluetooth antenna) and GND of the Bluetooth chip to shortcut the antenna or if that will burn the chip


Quote:
I'm not sure of the configuration, might be a split supply configuration for the opamps. ne5532 has an absolute maximum positive voltage of 22V, so a 24V supply for the amp would break them. The 47uF value is more than enough.
At the minimum I'd replace the opamps with legit ones if you want to keep the tone controls.
Click the image to open in full size.

I measured with "some load" between on my power supply connector 22V (strange because it is actually a 19V p.supply)
and between Vcc+ and Vcc- of the NE5532 21.2V

So according to the spec it is out of supply voltage range (3V to 20V) but below absolute maximum voltage of 22V.

So hopefully nothing gets burned here

Quote:
At the minimum I'd replace the opamps with legit ones if you want to keep the tone controls.
Since this is spec wise similar to real NE5532 and has a label of a chinese company and no fake label i have at least some kind of faith into it

But that could be some mod for future to add some sockets for op-amps (space could be enough in that area).

Quote:
If you are using it for your computer you can add the sound correction from the PC.
Not sure yet if it will be connected to the PC or to the Raspi. On PC i used APO to adjust the connected edifier R1280 setup but i'd like to have also some analog controls to quickly adjust it corresponding to the volume.

Quote:
I think there's unknown quality capacitors in the signal path
Do you mean the big caps between op-amps and bluetooth chip?
Attached Images
File Type: png NE5532.png (192.6 KB, 255 views)

Last edited by walpha; 23rd August 2020 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 23rd August 2020, 04:31 PM   #11552
Trileru is offline Trileru  Romania
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If you measure between Vcc+ and Vcc- and you have 21.2V then it is within spec. Measure between board ground, and Vcc+ and ground and Vcc- of the opamp and you'll probably find 10.6V and -10.6V. That is within spec for ne5532. This opamp supports a max of 22V above ground. But if you have 21.2V between Vcc- and Vcc+ means the ground is somewhere in between. Most likely Vcc- is not at ground level but somewhere at -10.6V or so.

If you short out the antenna there's a high chance you will burn the rf amplifier part of the chip. It's better to break the power supply line of the chip and add a switch to that. Either follow the chip's pin for power supply line (I think pin 12, lower right in your picture, there's a cap and a short trace to the pin, maybe break that), either mod the linear voltage regulator that's next to the upper 470uF capacitor.
You could also play with the mute pin. Pin nr.18 from the picture you posted in the other post. See if that makes any difference. I think grounding it should mute the output. Make sure it's not directly tied to the Vout of the regulator. Grounding it would short the regulator.

Ideally you follow the Vout of the regulator, find a good spot to break the trace. Get some sanding paper and tweezers, clean some length of the trace until you get copper, cut it, solder two wires on each side of the cut, and add your switch to those wires. Also ideally you'd add a resistor between Vout of the regulator and ground. Having it with no load might not be so good. Put something for let's say 5ma or so. If that output is 5V, a 1k resistor should do the trick, to keep the regulator busy when bluetooth is off.

You could also break Vin of the regulator, that way you won't need to add a load resistor to Vout of the chip. See what line is easier to cut/mod.

Last edited by Trileru; 23rd August 2020 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 24th August 2020, 10:07 AM   #11553
walpha is offline walpha
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Quote:
Going 20dB down (the gain of the amp) you are left with a minimum of 1.174V RMS on the input of the amp if you want to be able to reach full output of the tpa3116
from the datasheet of the predessor AC6905A this is what the predessor chip has as output

AC6905A_output.jpg

Quote:
But if you have 21.2V between Vcc- and Vcc+ means the ground is somewhere in between.
a thanks that was what i at least hoped

From AC6929 exists 3 versions (at least the 24 pin ones) with different pinouts

AC6929A (which is most likely the chip on my board):
AC6925A.jpg

AC6929B (which looks like a mono chip):
AC6925B.jpg

AC6929C (which i initialy thought but mesurements proved me wrong):
AC6925C.jpg


i did some measurements:
BT.jpg

pin12 VDDIO 3.3V

pin13 right aux

pin14 left aux

pin15 also connected to aux i don't know why i measured 0.28V there
on datasheet it is named AB/D (whatever that stands for)
On example in datasheet it goes to "mode" of an mix3901 (probably an example amplifier)

pin18 i measured 5Volts this is most likely VBat/VMCu USB power

pin19 i measured 1.35 Volt which is most likely BT_ADD (it is in datasheet of BT4.2 predecessor AC6905A 1.5V so 1.35V could fit for new BT5.0 chip)

pin16 may be mute

pin17 may be used for switches with resistors connected to gnd (e.g. 24k to switch mode)

Quote:
Ideally you follow the Vout of the regulator, find a good spot to break the trace.
i have a bit the feeling that than not even aux works anymore because it is connected through the bluetooth chip

i'm wondering what is up with that AB/D goes to Mode in the example

and that switch with resistors...is there a push button required or can that be permanent set (e.g. dip switch)

Unfortunately that smd chip is so tiny, so i need to find some measureing points when it is powered to not shortcut something.

Last edited by walpha; 24th August 2020 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 24th August 2020, 02:55 PM   #11554
gasolin75 is offline gasolin75  Denmark
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Can you hear that a TPA3116/3118 based amp has more distortion than a TPA32.. and TDA7498 based amps ?


TPA3116/3118 based amps has up to 0.3% thd where other higher tier class d amps has max 0.1% thd (TDA7498e and TPA321).
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Old 24th August 2020, 03:18 PM   #11555
Trileru is offline Trileru  Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walpha View Post
i have a bit the feeling that than not even aux works anymore because it is connected through the bluetooth chip



This is most likely the situation. I thought you have a physical switch for bt/aux.

c2/c3 are ceramic smd caps in the signal path, apart from all the others down the road until the signal gets into the tpa3116 chip.

If you like the convenience of the bluetooth then there isn't much you can do. I wouldn't use a random ebay bluetooth implementation for best sound quality. I'd use at least an aptx hd setup, with proper care for components and layout.
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Old 24th August 2020, 05:36 PM   #11556
walpha is offline walpha
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Quote:
This is most likely the situation. I thought you have a physical switch for bt/aux.
This is what im trying to achive. I don't need to disable bluetooth because of noise or something i just want to have a possibility to switch to aux just in case some neighbours connect to my amp.

Quote:
I'd use at least an aptx hd setup
The BT chip supports aptx hd.

Quote:
I wouldn't use a random ebay bluetooth implementation for best sound quality
It's not from ebay it is from amazon but i get your point.

The goal was to achieve with less money as for used active speakers (e.g. edifier R1280T) a better sound quality by buying used passive speakers and a class d amp (i'm at 25€ currently).

Last edited by walpha; 24th August 2020 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 24th August 2020, 08:42 PM   #11557
Trileru is offline Trileru  Romania
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You could make something like this:


Click the image to open in full size.


edit: I think you'd better place the large caps tombstone like on the lower pads, and make the top of them the signal input of the opamp, these lines go to the middle two connections of the switch. You then take the bluetooth signal off the upper freed pads, and route them to one side of the switch, and take the aux signal before the input caps (C2/C3), you remove those completely, and route those lines to the other side of the switch.

Hope you understood my sketch, looks kinda shitty tbh.

Do test all the connections. I think the large caps I drew on are the bt chip output, and the ones on the right are output from opamp to pots.

Last edited by Trileru; 24th August 2020 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 25th August 2020, 01:39 PM   #11558
gasolin75 is offline gasolin75  Denmark
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I had some static noise from my fosi audio TDA7498e because it's an aluminium volume knob, didn't find any non aluminium knob, so after talking to fosi audio, which responded very fast every time (i don't know why they used aluminium for the volume knob) i got the anwer that this amp, 100% shure, don't have this static noise

Click the image to open in full size.

It comes with a 19volt 4.7a power adapter,supply and last time i had one, it was a noubsound,douk audio G3, for that amp i bought a 24v,6a power adapter,supply.

What i have now as the biggest power supply is a 24 volt 4.5a, would that be big enough, even the stock power supply for the new fosi amp can deliver 4.7 ampere

What is the size of power connector on the amp, i might need to extend the cord and have to know if it's 5,5x2,1mm or 5,5x2,5mm
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Old 25th August 2020, 02:33 PM   #11559
lilolee is offline lilolee  United Kingdom
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There are thousands of different plastic knobs on ebay
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Cheers Lee
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Old 25th August 2020, 03:04 PM   #11560
gasolin75 is offline gasolin75  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilolee View Post
There are thousands of different plastic knobs on ebay
I tried for atleast 1-2 hours and most of them are aluminium and it of course have to have the right size

Mabye you can find one for me 20x20 mm
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