I talking about something like you sent me for inuke3000dsp do you have something like this for inuke1000dsp?
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&sour...ggeMAE&usg=AFQjCNF8PCSIRNuV9FE2SiwDBJimc6vMBA
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&sour...ggeMAE&usg=AFQjCNF8PCSIRNuV9FE2SiwDBJimc6vMBA
Wow, these INUKE amplifiers are designed in a hurry and with very low budget. Anti-features:
- Pre-filter feedback class-D, IRS20957 used in IRS2092 mode.
- Maximum dead time setting in IRS20957.
- No current limiting in speaker outputs, just over-current shutdown.
- Thermal fan speed control, but no thermal limiting, just thermal shutdown.
- Clip limiter is driven from level at input of amplifier, not from true output clipping, -9dB maximum attenuation.
- Power supply is not regulated, control circuit is inspired by old QSC or the like.
- Power supply has no current limiting, just over-current shutdown/hiccup mode.
Thanks for posting the schematics.
- Pre-filter feedback class-D, IRS20957 used in IRS2092 mode.
- Maximum dead time setting in IRS20957.
- No current limiting in speaker outputs, just over-current shutdown.
- Thermal fan speed control, but no thermal limiting, just thermal shutdown.
- Clip limiter is driven from level at input of amplifier, not from true output clipping, -9dB maximum attenuation.
- Power supply is not regulated, control circuit is inspired by old QSC or the like.
- Power supply has no current limiting, just over-current shutdown/hiccup mode.
Thanks for posting the schematics.
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You're very welcome, and thanks for the detailed feedback! You seem to have quite an in-depth and granular knowledge of amplifier design.
As an end-user of the amps while DJing and performing live music, I'm don't feel particularly affected by the items you mention above that seem to be viewed as design shortcuts. In use, I've never experienced clipping with these amps or shutdown/ protection, even when driving them into the red for many hours at a time in 4 ohm bridge mono mode.
Perhaps Behringer realized they could cut costs by simplifying the design in a way that their customers would not ever see the impacts of? Out of curiosity, are there other competing Class D amps that you see as having more robust engineering?
Again, thanks for your insight!
I'm the designer of class D amplifier modules for a North American company, made in USA: SpeakerPower - Home
INUKE series has very little R&D in it, the amplifier circuit is copied from "IRAUDAMP" papers, the power supply is copied from old QSC service manuals, they decided to run the short race.
There are some feelings about modern audio amplification that you can get from INUKE, particularly the feeling of high power from low natural resource usage, affordable from low budgets. Suitable for occasional low-budget/entry-level parties, without hurting nature.
There are some feelings about modern audio amplification that you cannot get from INUKE:
- The feeling of flat undistorted trebble output and constant amplifier gain regardless of load impedance. Gain and frequency response change with load, and even with amplifier temperature, in INUKE. This can be compensated with equalization, but what are you equalizing? When equipment changes frequency response in unpredictable ways for the user it is very difficult to learn to do precision equalization, which is equivalent to learning to do precision tuning of feelings.
- The feeling of an amplifier that does neither give up nor hurt itself in the long term when input or output is overloaded, only achieved with accurate limiting. This requires years of R&D and investment because at present there is very little stuff invented to copy.
- The feeling of an amplifier that does not become internally corroded and unusable after a few years of continuous use, due to dust accumulation in critical parts that need cooling but are not mounted onto a heatsink. In INUKE ambient air is blown directly into PCB with delicate SMD parts instead. Even the IRS20957 FET driver (the two big 16-pin rectangular boxes in page 1) needs the fan cooling because there is no way this little IC can drive 2+ heavy FETs like IRFS4227 reliably without buffering or cooling. In club environments this is like a self-destruction countdown clock continuously running. In home environments the fans prevent comfortable low level listening as for musical trance while resting. INUKE can do good at mid sound levels, but not at low or high levels, requiring the use of different products.
As a DJ you will probably figure out that these 3 points describe feelings/abilities that are highly needed in society, and are the most difficult ones to transmit, because these feelings are not only about the music played, they are about the designers of the gear used.
As a designer I can say that there is some kind of complementarity between designers running the short race and designers running the long race. The short race designers quickly provide an entry level design so that people can get a feeling about a new technology, but it becomes outdated sooner. The long race designers take some more years to provide a reference design that stays state-of-the-art for decades. As a long race designer I can say that I'm not earning big amounts of money, in fact I'm not even being able to save anything, it's taking me ~5 years per design to create high quality solutions comparable in function to low budget INUKE (maybe 1 year team development). In fact I have been working in an insalubrious location (40yr old building wrongly constructed and never revised) for years, not being able to fix it until recently. And yes, a good designer can work in any field, also refurbishing furniture, scraping old paint and toxic coatings, and adding insulation to walls. True engineering is universal. Universality takes a bit longer. In fact the designers of INUKE probably earned in 1 year as much money as I'm earning in 5 years.
INUKE series has very little R&D in it, the amplifier circuit is copied from "IRAUDAMP" papers, the power supply is copied from old QSC service manuals, they decided to run the short race.
There are some feelings about modern audio amplification that you can get from INUKE, particularly the feeling of high power from low natural resource usage, affordable from low budgets. Suitable for occasional low-budget/entry-level parties, without hurting nature.
There are some feelings about modern audio amplification that you cannot get from INUKE:
- The feeling of flat undistorted trebble output and constant amplifier gain regardless of load impedance. Gain and frequency response change with load, and even with amplifier temperature, in INUKE. This can be compensated with equalization, but what are you equalizing? When equipment changes frequency response in unpredictable ways for the user it is very difficult to learn to do precision equalization, which is equivalent to learning to do precision tuning of feelings.
- The feeling of an amplifier that does neither give up nor hurt itself in the long term when input or output is overloaded, only achieved with accurate limiting. This requires years of R&D and investment because at present there is very little stuff invented to copy.
- The feeling of an amplifier that does not become internally corroded and unusable after a few years of continuous use, due to dust accumulation in critical parts that need cooling but are not mounted onto a heatsink. In INUKE ambient air is blown directly into PCB with delicate SMD parts instead. Even the IRS20957 FET driver (the two big 16-pin rectangular boxes in page 1) needs the fan cooling because there is no way this little IC can drive 2+ heavy FETs like IRFS4227 reliably without buffering or cooling. In club environments this is like a self-destruction countdown clock continuously running. In home environments the fans prevent comfortable low level listening as for musical trance while resting. INUKE can do good at mid sound levels, but not at low or high levels, requiring the use of different products.
As a DJ you will probably figure out that these 3 points describe feelings/abilities that are highly needed in society, and are the most difficult ones to transmit, because these feelings are not only about the music played, they are about the designers of the gear used.
As a designer I can say that there is some kind of complementarity between designers running the short race and designers running the long race. The short race designers quickly provide an entry level design so that people can get a feeling about a new technology, but it becomes outdated sooner. The long race designers take some more years to provide a reference design that stays state-of-the-art for decades. As a long race designer I can say that I'm not earning big amounts of money, in fact I'm not even being able to save anything, it's taking me ~5 years per design to create high quality solutions comparable in function to low budget INUKE (maybe 1 year team development). In fact I have been working in an insalubrious location (40yr old building wrongly constructed and never revised) for years, not being able to fix it until recently. And yes, a good designer can work in any field, also refurbishing furniture, scraping old paint and toxic coatings, and adding insulation to walls. True engineering is universal. Universality takes a bit longer. In fact the designers of INUKE probably earned in 1 year as much money as I'm earning in 5 years.
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Wow, what a story. Thanks for that. It sounds like you guys are in a position to be innovators in your space, in true Silcon Valley fashion. I truly hope that your hard work, sacrifice, and creativity pay off big time, either through expanded product sales, licensing of design and technologies to other companies, or both.
While your technologies are mouth-watering, I could never justify spending the money on them in my situation - it just isn't a fit. My audiences are either desiring relatively faithful sound reproduction at medium levels for my live musician performances, or non-critical listening at high levels when I DJ weddings and parties. And who knows - I may not be DJing in another 3-5 years when problems may start to occur with my cheap Behringer amps. If so, I can buy a couple more and replace them many times over at the same cost as your products.
However, I truly believe that there are suitable and profitable markets for your products where you all can make a lot more profit margin than Behringer who has to sell hundreds of thousands of units to small-time guys like me. In addition to the home theater enthusiast/ DIY group you have tapped into, there is a much larger opportunity. Schools, concert/ recital halls, and large event facilities like conference centers, gyms, and sports arenas would do well to take a look at your offerings. These institutions need exactly those 3 key benefits you described: great fidelity, protection without interrupting service, and extreme reliability! Anything less, and they aren't providing the sound reinforcement their customers expect.
I hope that you all can grow solid relationships with the audio installation companies that sell and service these large commercial clients. I can imagine these commercial audio companies easily putting in orders for dozens of units at a time when a new installation job is successfully bid on.
Unless your branding is already very well known, I would also consider changing the company name and/ or the name of your product line. A small amount of money to be spent on logo variations and/ or a "Corporate Identity Package" could go a long way. The name SpeakerPower does not convey an impression of the tremendous value provided by the rare, cutting edge technologies you have engineered into your products, and how much your target customers should be more than happy to spend on it.
You could probably make a 'better' amplifier by using multiple 4227/4229 outputs with proper gate drive circuitry, with little else being absoulutely necessary. Only a few dollars more for a DIY. Engineer some real current limiting with a current transformer and then you don't have a ticking bomb.
Got a couple of old iron horse trafos that will give +/-93 that are begging to be put to use and don't have the taps to do class H.... Even loaded they should put out more than 78V - giving more RMS than the inuke puts out peak. I was expecting to see closer to 100v supplies in that thing. Really is 3000w peak and not a milliwatt more.
Got a couple of old iron horse trafos that will give +/-93 that are begging to be put to use and don't have the taps to do class H.... Even loaded they should put out more than 78V - giving more RMS than the inuke puts out peak. I was expecting to see closer to 100v supplies in that thing. Really is 3000w peak and not a milliwatt more.
Incidentally, my mother had 2 children, then divorced, then had another children. Her latest partner tried to kill me yesterday with 4 bricks thrown in the face, I got hit by one. But forget about the particular story, just view it in a fully abstract way.
What is the impact over subconscious brain of society when a state-of-the-art technological product, made with rare and scarce materials, that is supposed to be a creation so some mother/father/children neurology is involved, and is not a consumable, is expected to be bought more than once by the same user for the same purpose? A consumable society? Delicate creations thrown away?
This prevents me from designing anything that would be intended to be bought more than once by same user for same purpose, as it wouldn't be coherent with or encouraging for other battles being fought in life.
But amplifiers are like Pringles - no one can eat just one. Not so much the cost of an amplifier intended to be purchased "once", but rather the cost of a rack full of them that drives people to buy throwaways. Each drives two subs, four is barely adequate and eight is finally enough where you don't need to be running them in hard limit continuously. Damn, that's a used F250. I still don't buy $300 throwaway amps, but tend to use old iron horses that other people have thrown away in favor of something lighter. Mostly because I can maintain them indefinitely. And of course have more than one. And all of my DIY amps are made from recycled parts - never paid full price for a transformer, heat sink, case or computer grade cap and never plan to.
I understand about the bricks in the face - had to put up with that garbage as a teenager. It was over music being produced by a home brew STK439 based amp and a couple of 8" full rangers. It wasn't THAT loud.
I understand about the bricks in the face - had to put up with that garbage as a teenager. It was over music being produced by a home brew STK439 based amp and a couple of 8" full rangers. It wasn't THAT loud.
Not sure what that story had to with your amplifier designs?
Had your mom's partner "thrown bricks in my face", he would be scraping his face up off the ground after getting a taste of Mr. Smith & Wesson's good 'ole .500 Magnum!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvnpUpMeD8s
No more "mom's brick throwing partner".
Keep up the good design work!
Nothing wrong with the name SpeakerPower at all, in fact i like it a Lot Much better than the Behringer name any day I wouldn't use a Behringer amp on Any speakers i value, or on Anybody elses speakers either ! Keeping your fingers crossed nothing tragic will go wrong, does NOT appeal to me
@ Eva
Good to see you here. All the best with your products
Much better than the Behringer name any day I wouldn't use a Behringer amp on Any speakers i value, or on Anybody elses speakers either ! Keeping your fingers crossed nothing tragic will go wrong, does NOT appeal to me @ Eva
Good to see you here. All the best with your products
Nothing wrong with the name SpeakerPower at all, in fact i like it a Lot
Well, Behringer isn't my first choice either but Behringer got much better amps than the iNuke, the Europower or short EP series. Often times the Thomann amps are a better choice for low budget though.
Nothing wrong with the name SpeakerPower at all, in fact i like it a Lot
Makes sense as the first time I heard of them they were making plate amps for powered speakers - for the real pro audio industry, for sale to OEMs only. Not the $599 specials you see in Musicians Friend. I thought they were affiliated with Powersoft, but they may be competing products.
Speaking of ticking bombs inside Behringer equipment - I found something interesting in the IRS4227 data sheet that I hadn't noticed before. It states that the die attach in the D2pak (RoHS version of course) is subject to wear out after 1000 thermal cycles. By wear out it means a 50% increase in Rth. Must be some sort of epoxy. It will take more than that to die, but it eventually will, just like the old aluminum TO-3. Found out about that from the 78xx regulator data sheets. The TO220 has no such warning but is "not recommended for surface mounting". Crack them open and they are definitely soldered. With a package with that small a thermal mass it's not that hard to rack up several thousand thermal cycles at subwoofer frequencies.
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