This is not just another gainclone

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Re: Speaker cables for GC

2Bak said:

The left side lenght of the cable is about one meter, the right side about three meters. Right side speaker made heavy distortion or something like that. It didn't sound healthy. I though the woofer was damaged, but it's not...!
My gainclone just didn't like this high cable with this lenght. With three meter cheap cobber speaker cable, everythings is OK.
Does anyone have similar experiences with speakers cables? Which types of speaker cables are best suited for Gainclones?

First of all you shouldn't use different length cables for left and right channels, neither for low level signal or speakers.

Second, Cat 5 based cables are known to be capable of causing oscillation on some amplifiers, due to their higher capacitance.

A zobel should solve the problem.

But again: use same length cables.


Carlos
 
2Bak said:
Does anyone have similar experiences with speakers cables? Which types of speaker cables are best suited for Gainclones?

Yes, these problems are likely due to oscillation. If you have some CAT5 left, try this:

Take one pair of CAT5 strands. Unwrap them. Use these two cables for one speaker (one for +, one for -). This configuration is similar to the 47 labs OTA cable and sounds very good on my system. Good luck!

(and I agree that you should have the same length of wire for your channels)

Fedde
 
OTA clone

fedde said:


Yes, these problems are likely due to oscillation. If you have some CAT5 left, try this:

Take one pair of CAT5 strands. Unwrap them. Use these two cables for one speaker (one for +, one for -). This configuration is similar to the 47 labs OTA cable and sounds very good on my system. Good luck!

(and I agree that you should have the same length of wire for your channels)

Fedde

Fedde, I'm not sure if I understand you correctly.
Like this...?
 

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Use only one twisted pair of CAT5. To lower the capacitance untwist the wires. It works. It's not something to die for but gives decent results.

In general - I don't thing CAT5 is good for audio. OTA is thinner - 26AWG, OFC. There is something in the CAT5 that spoils everything. But feel free to experiment. Two wires give the best results.

Regards
 
Asen said:
Use only one twisted pair of CAT5. To lower the capacitance untwist the wires. It works. It's not something to die for but gives decent results.

In general - I don't thing CAT5 is good for audio. OTA is thinner - 26AWG, OFC. There is something in the CAT5 that spoils everything. But feel free to experiment. Two wires give the best results.

Regards

I use 'em twisted. Can tell no difference on my present speakers if twisted or untwisted. For the time being these cables will do fine
:cool:
Like the look and feeling of such thin cables.
And I have no problem with oscillation, whatsover...
Uses same lenght now, 3.5 meters each.
Thanks
/Jan
 

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The OTA cable has 0.4 mm diameter. And I think the CAT5 strand 0.36 mm !? The difference is mainly in quality of the teflon (and copper).
Have a look at:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&990492297&read&3&4&
They discuss things like twisting there. Untwisted configuration is preffered (though I haven't read everything yet...). Glad it worked for you this way. (I you had known that earlier, it would have saved some braiding...). They say dynamics are better in unbraided configuration. I wouldn't be too concerned about interference this way, the speaker signals are high power of course. Also, the speaker wires can be made a little shorter unbraided !!!

Fedde
 
Some more info from Thorsten:

One day I'll ask a question about magnetic fields on Pluto and somebody will point to an article on that topic written by Thorsten ;)

I have long thought this to be not one person but a team of 10-20 people, working 24/7 replying to all the audio forums on the net and writing articles for any publications that wants them. How does he do it? :scratch:

Thanks again Fedde - interesting reading and time to knock up some more cables :bulb:
 
CAT5 is thicker than OTA - 0.5mm. I'm not sure it's pure copper. Maybe the CAT 5enh, which is 'halogen free' would give better results.

OTA is 0.4mm, oxigen free copper (OFC), single strand wire with thick teflon insulation. It's not twisted, but you could do so if you want. The essence is that it is a HQ telephone cable.

The way CAT5 affects the sound is more audioble when you use several strands - thin bass and harsh mids and highs. If you decide on CAT5 - use single strand only for best results. But one should expect more of a cable than CAT5 gives. Maybe it works well in the area it's expected to - in the MHz zone.

Regards
 
Using Cat-5

2Bak said:

I use 'em twisted. Can tell no difference on my present speakers if twisted or untwisted. For the time being these cables will do fine
:cool:
Like the look and feeling of such thin cables.
And I have no problem with oscillation, whatsover...
Uses same lenght now, 3.5 meters each.


Are you driving woofers with that green/white cable?

If you do I'd say it might be a bit too thin.

Or do you mean you took a pair from a Cat-5 and that's what you're using?

It may sound fine at lower levels, like a few watts, and some tube amps driving horns were commented as sounding find. But serious levels requires wire area.

The principle behind Cat-5 based cables, and there are a few around, is using several isolated solid core wires twisted.

A friend of mine, who makes excellent loudspeakers, implemented Cat-5 braids using 3 and 4 cables. That is 12 and 16 pairs, which are seaparated in white and coloured groups for - and + phase respectively.

They sound excellent, but the amp has to be able to drive it.

Best listening reports on Cat-5 go for using more than twenty teflon pairs that you take away from the original pvc insulation and then braid/twist.



Carlos
 
Nuuk, LCAudio sells this silver coated Stripline, that I use for line level wiring. I don't see why this wire cannot be used as speaker cables...

Below see pic of some phone cable I had. This cable - to the left - is used for my 2Mbit ADSL connection. Note that each strand is one thick copper wire, whereas the Cat5 on the right has several thin copper wires. I believe this cable come closer to the wire used in the OTA cable...?

I have now made a speaker cable with this phone cable and maybe - after burn in - I'll get more bass, I dunno....

/Jan
 

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I use solid core CAT5. It has high quality copper. Only the insulator is not so good. I wouldn't use stranded CAT5. It could be that single wires give less bass at higher volumes. But I am not so sure. The definition of less bass is not so clear too. Frequency wise not so much happens I guess. But the difference is in tightness. Tighter bass has less 'width' of the bass. Then it seems that there is less bass, but wait till you hear a church organ ;)

I think that is the thing that people experience when they say the GC has too few bass. Some people prefer wooly bass (no offence!). In a disco or cinema I like fat bass. But a tight bass is more realistic.... :nod:

Fedde
 
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