another noob here. ive been reading up on these gainclone amplifiers and seeing witch one to go for. i want something i can build "out of the box" and which i won't need to build a pre-amp for, yet anyway.
i want somthing simple to start with and ive decided on either down to the Audiosector/Chipamp LM3875 or Mauro Penasa's My Reference RevC from Twisted Pear.
they both seem very good, but witch shoud i go for?
the lm3875 looks like the most comman chip and the audiosector looks well deisgned. i read the other newbie thread and see i will need speaker protection circuits which will make the lm3875 only slightly cheaper than the twisted pear option, so price isnt an issue.
garnett. if your reading this can you tell me why you decided on the lm3875?
the myref and the threads about it make me think its had a lot of thought put into it.
so which should a noob looking for the best sound and easiest first amp go for?
whats important to me is sound quality, volume, and ease of use.
if you can help thanks.
i want somthing simple to start with and ive decided on either down to the Audiosector/Chipamp LM3875 or Mauro Penasa's My Reference RevC from Twisted Pear.
they both seem very good, but witch shoud i go for?
the lm3875 looks like the most comman chip and the audiosector looks well deisgned. i read the other newbie thread and see i will need speaker protection circuits which will make the lm3875 only slightly cheaper than the twisted pear option, so price isnt an issue.
garnett. if your reading this can you tell me why you decided on the lm3875?
the myref and the threads about it make me think its had a lot of thought put into it.
so which should a noob looking for the best sound and easiest first amp go for?
whats important to me is sound quality, volume, and ease of use.
if you can help thanks.
Hi Blottojon.
I'm on the verge of going for the Audiosector kit. I've read glowing reports of the LM3875 on here, and at www.gainclone.com. (Also - this is the chip the original gaincard came with in 1999 - as that is newer than the kit I use at the moment, and sold for about 20 times more than mine when new, I figure having as close a copy to that can't be bad.
)
The Twisted Pear kit sounds very impressive, but I think that might be my second build, as it seems to evolved a lot from a simple design. I want to appreciate the most basic set-up before I start to look at anything more complicated. I read as much of the thread linked from the twisted pear site as I could, and I agree - the thought and experimentation that has gone into it can only have produced good things.
Not sure about volumes. Someone else will have to tell you about those.
I am already wondering about bi-amping and (sorry if this is thread-jacking at all ) was wondering if bi-amping with one each of these two kits would be a problem...?
I'm on the verge of going for the Audiosector kit. I've read glowing reports of the LM3875 on here, and at www.gainclone.com. (Also - this is the chip the original gaincard came with in 1999 - as that is newer than the kit I use at the moment, and sold for about 20 times more than mine when new, I figure having as close a copy to that can't be bad.
)The Twisted Pear kit sounds very impressive, but I think that might be my second build, as it seems to evolved a lot from a simple design. I want to appreciate the most basic set-up before I start to look at anything more complicated. I read as much of the thread linked from the twisted pear site as I could, and I agree - the thought and experimentation that has gone into it can only have produced good things.
Not sure about volumes. Someone else will have to tell you about those.
I am already wondering about bi-amping and (sorry if this is thread-jacking at all
) was wondering if bi-amping with one each of these two kits would be a problem...?Hi, just to chip in my thoughts. Another noob here.
Originally, I had wanted to start off with the My Ref C from Twisted Pear but was advised by a fellow diyer that since I have never built anything b4, that may not be suitable for me at my level (never even soldered b4). He suggested I built something easier instead and gave me a LM3886 board that he bought when he was in China and I started off on my first project. Completed that and fell in love with DIY and have now started on my second project and that's the LM4780 from Audiosector, and have a LM3875 board also from the same source for the next project.
Hopefully, after these I'll be ready to build something like the My RefC which I believe is awesome. At the end of it, what I hope to do is to be able to compare all the 4 completed amps, and draw my own conclusion as to which suits me the best. I am sure that they will all sound awesome from what I am hearing from my present amp right now.
Conclusion, if in doubt of your own skills, I would go for Peter's LM3875, as it has so little components to handle, and proceed to the My RefC later. But if you are confident, what the heck, why not, go straight in for the My RefC.
Originally, I had wanted to start off with the My Ref C from Twisted Pear but was advised by a fellow diyer that since I have never built anything b4, that may not be suitable for me at my level (never even soldered b4). He suggested I built something easier instead and gave me a LM3886 board that he bought when he was in China and I started off on my first project. Completed that and fell in love with DIY and have now started on my second project and that's the LM4780 from Audiosector, and have a LM3875 board also from the same source for the next project.
Hopefully, after these I'll be ready to build something like the My RefC which I believe is awesome. At the end of it, what I hope to do is to be able to compare all the 4 completed amps, and draw my own conclusion as to which suits me the best. I am sure that they will all sound awesome from what I am hearing from my present amp right now.
Conclusion, if in doubt of your own skills, I would go for Peter's LM3875, as it has so little components to handle, and proceed to the My RefC later. But if you are confident, what the heck, why not, go straight in for the My RefC.
Blottojon,
I am still very much an amateur myself and I was in your shoes about 6 months ago.
My first amp was an LM4780 kit from Peter at audiosector.com and now I am working on a 2*LM4780 chips per channel amp. It is challenging for me!!
What I want to tell you about is not the amp however. I want to tell you about Peter and his site. To me, when I started in this intimidating hobby, I was more concerned with finding a "mentor" if you will. Someone whom I could fall back on to nudge me through the process.
For me, Peter has been that guy. And I reccomned him to all noobies when I get the chance. He is quick with the e-mails and more than willing to help. The same is true for BrianGT although I have not worked with him as much.
Anyway, I really would have been lost with a bunch of parts lying around if it wasn't for Peter.
I suggest the LM3875!
I am still very much an amateur myself and I was in your shoes about 6 months ago.
My first amp was an LM4780 kit from Peter at audiosector.com and now I am working on a 2*LM4780 chips per channel amp. It is challenging for me!!
What I want to tell you about is not the amp however. I want to tell you about Peter and his site. To me, when I started in this intimidating hobby, I was more concerned with finding a "mentor" if you will. Someone whom I could fall back on to nudge me through the process.
For me, Peter has been that guy. And I reccomned him to all noobies when I get the chance. He is quick with the e-mails and more than willing to help. The same is true for BrianGT although I have not worked with him as much.
Anyway, I really would have been lost with a bunch of parts lying around if it wasn't for Peter.
I suggest the LM3875!
For a basic GC, especialy the LM3875 ones, a kit is hardly justified, and will rob you of much learning abilities. It will be far more fulfilling sourcing the parts and doing your first amp with point to point wiring, this should cost a fraction of a kit.
The Twisted pair board is not a gainclone (even though it uses a chipamp) it a much more refined implementation... the kit parts are so well made and boards well marked you can hardly make a mistake if you spent a few minutes practising soldering.
remember, that nothing worth reaching ever is easy.
The Twisted pair board is not a gainclone (even though it uses a chipamp) it a much more refined implementation... the kit parts are so well made and boards well marked you can hardly make a mistake if you spent a few minutes practising soldering.
remember, that nothing worth reaching ever is easy.
Yea, I guess I am wierd like that. My amp NOOb DIY project is building a LM4702. That has been fun!Nordic said:
Almost up and running, btw.
As far as gainclones go, the Linkwitz LM3886 implimentation is pretty darn straightforward and is easy to wire point to point on some protoboard.
Edit: Guess a URL may help.
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/xo_eq.htm
It is down toward the bottm of the page, though the whole section is diy geek heaven!
Thanx guys. i still cant decide. i do want the ease of a kit for my first build. nordic, i think your right. the more you put in the more you get out.
in the meantime im struggling with the way everything fits together. i want to make a website about building my amp with my absolut beginners views. what i havent seen is a website that shows a good overview of the whole process. i want to be able to go from an overview into detailed bits on every part.
ive drawn a very bassic table which i hope shows how the various stages of the music system fit together. can you look at it for me and suggest any improvements and additions.
i haven't included a phono stage, because im not a big vinyl fan but if someone can think of a good way to fit it in then please tell me.
also as i understand it each stage except the speakers need power (although im sure even here there are exceptions - there generally tend to be in this game!).
can people also suggest which are the best power supplies at each stage (or atleast list some of the options) and also put wether a power supply can be sheared by different stages.
when im done i want to be able to draw a basic diagram with all the different possibilities for every stage, with suggested values/specifications for each, breif descriptions, and reccommended sources and part numbers.
hopefully each stage can then be broken down, possibly even to the component stage but i know this will take a long time.
in the meantime im struggling with the way everything fits together. i want to make a website about building my amp with my absolut beginners views. what i havent seen is a website that shows a good overview of the whole process. i want to be able to go from an overview into detailed bits on every part.
ive drawn a very bassic table which i hope shows how the various stages of the music system fit together. can you look at it for me and suggest any improvements and additions.
i haven't included a phono stage, because im not a big vinyl fan but if someone can think of a good way to fit it in then please tell me.
also as i understand it each stage except the speakers need power (although im sure even here there are exceptions - there generally tend to be in this game!).
can people also suggest which are the best power supplies at each stage (or atleast list some of the options) and also put wether a power supply can be sheared by different stages.
when im done i want to be able to draw a basic diagram with all the different possibilities for every stage, with suggested values/specifications for each, breif descriptions, and reccommended sources and part numbers.
hopefully each stage can then be broken down, possibly even to the component stage but i know this will take a long time.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/decdun/gainclone.html
start there, just take care, the 47uf capacitor is actualy 4.7uf...
start there, just take care, the 47uf capacitor is actualy 4.7uf...
well for value for money I would go the Ref-C route. (from twisted pear) the board is VERY simple to build. you can do it in a hour. and you would not have to upgrade to anything else for a VERY long time. connect this to a good line stage and you will be richly rewarded.
rahter practice your building skill on the Line stage. you will have a great amp to test it with
rahter practice your building skill on the Line stage. you will have a great amp to test it with
Dominick22, I don't know about Jon, but I went for the LM3875 from Audiosector, based very much on what you had to say.
I can't wait to get going on the kit.
I still intend to get the LM3886 from Twisted Pear, but not for a while. I took what Safetyman ad to say on board as well and don't want get ahead of myself.
Thanks for the advice.
(Just a quick question - Can you tell me anything about speaker protection and clipping? I have had a look at speaker protection circuits and seen some that look good, but I've read threads that suggest additional circuitry in a gainclone defeats the whole "less is more" philosophy. How necessary is it? And about clipping: When does it come in to play? I do sometimes like to crank the music up...)
I've got KEF Q55.2 Floorstanding Speakers (linkified) if that has any bearing.
On a related note - I was also wondering about possibly bi-amping when (and if) I get both kits. Anyone recommend which amp should do what? I've read tweeters have good in-built protection so maybe these could be powered by the gainclone, and the woofers could have the twisted pear with its onboard speaker protection...
How do I always seem to make a quick post in to a page of questions?
I can't wait to get going on the kit.
I still intend to get the LM3886 from Twisted Pear, but not for a while. I took what Safetyman ad to say on board as well and don't want get ahead of myself.
Thanks for the advice.
(Just a quick question - Can you tell me anything about speaker protection and clipping? I have had a look at speaker protection circuits and seen some that look good, but I've read threads that suggest additional circuitry in a gainclone defeats the whole "less is more" philosophy. How necessary is it? And about clipping: When does it come in to play? I do sometimes like to crank the music up...)
I've got KEF Q55.2 Floorstanding Speakers (linkified) if that has any bearing.
On a related note - I was also wondering about possibly bi-amping when (and if) I get both kits. Anyone recommend which amp should do what? I've read tweeters have good in-built protection so maybe these could be powered by the gainclone, and the woofers could have the twisted pear with its onboard speaker protection...
How do I always seem to make a quick post in to a page of questions?
Garnett,
Thanks for letting me know what you did! Sometimes I wonder if anyone reads my posts!LOL
Speaker protection is the title of a Thread I just started recently in the chip amp section. I suggest starting there to get your feet wet. You may understand more than I did. After that, the forum or writing Peter through his site could be your next step. If you write Peter, try to ask 1 main question per e-mail and be to the point as he is busy. He will for sure give you 1 main answer!
I am sorry I can't give you more advice in this arena, but I don't want to put my foot in my mouth. Personally, from what I can tell as long as you have measure the DC an it is less than 20mv, you are pretty much safe and do not need the protection. Some will probably differ in opinion, but that is what I feel is sufficient. The other thread goes in depth. You can look it up under chip amp or my uder name.
mmm, Bi-amping is a great question since I have speakers that will do this, but I really have not thought about it. IE: I dont know!
I so far have experiance with the LM4780 dual mono kit and now I bought 2 dual mono kits and I am trying to parallel them into one 2 channel amp.
Also, I recomend upgrading your 1500uf caps to a higher grade Nichicon. I am currently running 4700uf fine gold's, but I am waiting for 10,000uf Super Through's to come in.
Peter reccomends the fine gold's by the way! And I will post when I get the 10kuf's hooked up.
I am not an expert, but some people I have made it a point to read from are CarlosFM, Tiltedhalo, Bazukaz, Nordic, Bobken, Briangt, and of course Peter Daniel.
I know how you feel right now and its a tight spot becuase you need more than an expert...you need people who can explain things on your level! I suggest the above for that. Generally, they speak just above my beginner level to where I learn, but understand "usually". You might try searching their posting histories! That helped me!
If there is anything that I can ever help you with, know that I am very willing to TRY and help.
Have you bought transformers?? I have found a few good places to get them!
What was that you said?
"How do I always seem to make a quick post in to a page of questions?"
Hmmmm,
Dominick
Thanks for letting me know what you did! Sometimes I wonder if anyone reads my posts!LOL
Speaker protection is the title of a Thread I just started recently in the chip amp section. I suggest starting there to get your feet wet. You may understand more than I did. After that, the forum or writing Peter through his site could be your next step. If you write Peter, try to ask 1 main question per e-mail and be to the point as he is busy. He will for sure give you 1 main answer!
I am sorry I can't give you more advice in this arena, but I don't want to put my foot in my mouth. Personally, from what I can tell as long as you have measure the DC an it is less than 20mv, you are pretty much safe and do not need the protection. Some will probably differ in opinion, but that is what I feel is sufficient. The other thread goes in depth. You can look it up under chip amp or my uder name.
mmm, Bi-amping is a great question since I have speakers that will do this, but I really have not thought about it. IE: I dont know!
I so far have experiance with the LM4780 dual mono kit and now I bought 2 dual mono kits and I am trying to parallel them into one 2 channel amp.
Also, I recomend upgrading your 1500uf caps to a higher grade Nichicon. I am currently running 4700uf fine gold's, but I am waiting for 10,000uf Super Through's to come in.
Peter reccomends the fine gold's by the way! And I will post when I get the 10kuf's hooked up.
I am not an expert, but some people I have made it a point to read from are CarlosFM, Tiltedhalo, Bazukaz, Nordic, Bobken, Briangt, and of course Peter Daniel.
I know how you feel right now and its a tight spot becuase you need more than an expert...you need people who can explain things on your level! I suggest the above for that. Generally, they speak just above my beginner level to where I learn, but understand "usually". You might try searching their posting histories! That helped me!
If there is anything that I can ever help you with, know that I am very willing to TRY and help.
Have you bought transformers?? I have found a few good places to get them!
What was that you said?
"How do I always seem to make a quick post in to a page of questions?"
Hmmmm,
Dominick
Thanks Dominick.
I feel like I'm in a hurry to get answers and that I should be a bit more patient and I'm sure I will find answers in time!
I will definitely do a search of the people you mention, and for Nuuk's posts as well.
I'm based in London, so I'm not going to be able to take advantage of your American suppliers unfortunately.
I have an old EI Transformer from a marantz amp that I'm hoping will do the job to start with (although Switched Mode Power Supplies - as mentioned on this forum and Nuuk's Decibel Dungeon - have been looking quite interesting).
My KEFs are my pride and joy. I picked them up for £90 (about 160USD) on eBay and they are like new! They sound great to me, but then I'm fairly new to hifi and fairly biased. I would say they have a full sound, but my set up at the moment (- old Marantz CD63 cd player, old Marantz PM47 Amp and the speakers-) seems to lack a bit of bass definition.
I have a fairly small flat and thin walls, so volume's not as important as definition. It was searching for possible (and cheap) improvements that led me here.
I feel like I'm in a hurry to get answers and that I should be a bit more patient and I'm sure I will find answers in time!
I will definitely do a search of the people you mention, and for Nuuk's posts as well.
I'm based in London, so I'm not going to be able to take advantage of your American suppliers unfortunately.
I have an old EI Transformer from a marantz amp that I'm hoping will do the job to start with (although Switched Mode Power Supplies - as mentioned on this forum and Nuuk's Decibel Dungeon - have been looking quite interesting).
My KEFs are my pride and joy. I picked them up for £90 (about 160USD) on eBay and they are like new! They sound great to me, but then I'm fairly new to hifi and fairly biased. I would say they have a full sound, but my set up at the moment (- old Marantz CD63 cd player, old Marantz PM47 Amp and the speakers-) seems to lack a bit of bass definition.
I have a fairly small flat and thin walls, so volume's not as important as definition. It was searching for possible (and cheap) improvements that led me here.
Both Maplin and and Farnell can be good source of high quality and yet pretty cheap transformers in the u.k.
Those kef look great i know the q series has got a lot of good press, i have 3 different set up Kefs the best being some Concerto 1 floor stander. Thye sound great and yet again for my small flat are perfect, speaker of this quality level easliy allow you to hear huge gain by changing ( building) amps.
You might also consider some tweaks to the CD63 ced player, whilst good there are loads of tweaks to these units that are worth while.
http://www.acoustica.org.uk/
Go there and look in the CD 63 tweaking section.
Have fun,
Phil
Those kef look great i know the q series has got a lot of good press, i have 3 different set up Kefs the best being some Concerto 1 floor stander. Thye sound great and yet again for my small flat are perfect, speaker of this quality level easliy allow you to hear huge gain by changing ( building) amps.
You might also consider some tweaks to the CD63 ced player, whilst good there are loads of tweaks to these units that are worth while.
http://www.acoustica.org.uk/
Go there and look in the CD 63 tweaking section.
Have fun,
Phil
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