Hi,
I'm having a pair of JBL GTO 609C and starting to build my car audio System. They are connected to an EDGE 350.2 200w x 2 4ohm.
I also have a Ground Zero GZHA4120X 4x85W and JBL GTO 75.4 (1st gen) 105w x 4. for the rest of the speakers and sub that will come to install. Maybe i will put the GZ for the front even it's not that powerful as the Edge, but i think is having more SQ.
i've played around with my Alpine ute 72BT HP filter, but even at 120hz, if i turn all the way up loud they get to reach max and pop. It's true that i have my bass +3 level, mid +2 level, and MX at 3.
I was just doing a simulation of how will the front sound when i will install a subwoofer.
Also i have my Spotify/ Galaxy S10+ EQ custom to a clear sound (not over 0dB in the bass) just a litte over 0dB from 1kHZ up depending the frequency, for a CLEAR sound.
I like the sound to be good not flat. Flat music is awful.
Did this because the DSP will be the last piece of the puzzle being so expensive (a good one like Helix/zapco/Audison)
Building separate enclosure for the woofer is not possible is my daily and can't cut the door panel (VW passat has a middle panel with window mechanism that removes completely).
Just deadened the doors with vibro and silent coat on all 3 panels outside metal, window mechanism panel and interior panel).
I was just thinking if there is a way that coud stop the speaker bottoming out on lower FQ like 60 or 80hz?? This would be very good if possible.
Maybe this can be achieved with an amplifier having higher Damping Factor?
It's weird because music being dynamic, there are songs like hip-hop that have bass and can make speakers pop and other music genres like rock or pop that can crank the volume up to 100% max and no poping.
Also there are songs that have bass that can't even be reproduced by the speaker (i think) and makes the speaker pop a lot.
What's your guessing about stopping this phenomenon happening in the lower FQ?
I'm having a pair of JBL GTO 609C and starting to build my car audio System. They are connected to an EDGE 350.2 200w x 2 4ohm.
I also have a Ground Zero GZHA4120X 4x85W and JBL GTO 75.4 (1st gen) 105w x 4. for the rest of the speakers and sub that will come to install. Maybe i will put the GZ for the front even it's not that powerful as the Edge, but i think is having more SQ.
i've played around with my Alpine ute 72BT HP filter, but even at 120hz, if i turn all the way up loud they get to reach max and pop. It's true that i have my bass +3 level, mid +2 level, and MX at 3.
I was just doing a simulation of how will the front sound when i will install a subwoofer.
Also i have my Spotify/ Galaxy S10+ EQ custom to a clear sound (not over 0dB in the bass) just a litte over 0dB from 1kHZ up depending the frequency, for a CLEAR sound.
I like the sound to be good not flat. Flat music is awful.
Did this because the DSP will be the last piece of the puzzle being so expensive (a good one like Helix/zapco/Audison)
Building separate enclosure for the woofer is not possible is my daily and can't cut the door panel (VW passat has a middle panel with window mechanism that removes completely).
Just deadened the doors with vibro and silent coat on all 3 panels outside metal, window mechanism panel and interior panel).
I was just thinking if there is a way that coud stop the speaker bottoming out on lower FQ like 60 or 80hz?? This would be very good if possible.
Maybe this can be achieved with an amplifier having higher Damping Factor?
It's weird because music being dynamic, there are songs like hip-hop that have bass and can make speakers pop and other music genres like rock or pop that can crank the volume up to 100% max and no poping.
Also there are songs that have bass that can't even be reproduced by the speaker (i think) and makes the speaker pop a lot.
What's your guessing about stopping this phenomenon happening in the lower FQ?
I have what are probably the same drivers, and can only turn them up half way before I run into trouble with bass heavy music without cutting the lower frequencies. That’s with an amplifier that advertises a damping factor of 1000, and really haven’t thought too much about that number either as I’m not sure it actually makes a huge difference in application.
So I really don’t think you’ll be able to turn up your volume knob all the way and get the same crisp response as at lower volumes, the laws of physic’s don’t allow for those speakers to perform like subwoofers at anything but very low volumes.
If you’re patient and can live without 100 decibel 40hz in your car, you might be able to get it sounding pretty good with some EQ tuning.
So I really don’t think you’ll be able to turn up your volume knob all the way and get the same crisp response as at lower volumes, the laws of physic’s don’t allow for those speakers to perform like subwoofers at anything but very low volumes.
If you’re patient and can live without 100 decibel 40hz in your car, you might be able to get it sounding pretty good with some EQ tuning.
I will get an osciloscope to spec the exact clipping point of HU and AMP.
I am a bit confused to the fact that i get bottom out popping on HPF 120HZ also (yess, pushing to the max volume of spotify/smartphone + max alpine HU), which is quite bass-loss and cone would not move as much. Probably if pushed to the max will also pop at HP 160HZ but that's so loud that i can't stay in the car and becomes unhealthy. I was just playing with these loudness levels because there is no way can listen to that.
Also i forgot to mention that my amplifier crossovers are set to full, doing the HP from HU, because i don't have yet my rear doors speakers installed. Would this affect?
Speaker wires (wf and even tweeter) are 2mm² so they are not restraining the signal power
The thing is i can't HP front speakers to 120HZ even with rear sp and subs, there will be no depth from the front stage this way.
So i would like to play a bit louder from the front, let's say to the 24-26 level from 35max, from a HP for ex at 80hz. Even at 80hz my roof is vibrating (i need to dampen that too)
They do sound good to the ear, excepting the player Alpine UTE72BT, if i turn off the IC (as it should driving by amplifier) i can't control the 3 band EQ so i don't have a center FQ and wide-narrow set-up. Also output from HU is only 2.4 V (probably at max vol 35) so lowe volume will lose a lot of signal.
I know they are not very expensive speakers but also not very cheap for me in Romania around 120USD is decent. I do like the sound of JBL suited for rock and hip-hop (mainly my music)
I mainly listen to spotify 90% of the music (was tinking to switch to Tidal for sound quality but i don't think is as good as music recomendation and playlists)
So i stream from my Galaxy S10+, which i played with phone's EQ 9 bands to get a clear sound.
I was thinking that may be a power related issue/phenomenon. JBL Claims that speakers can hadlo 5-200W RMS. Even on their official page there were some customers claiming to have 90w/ch amplifier and JBL recomending to step up to 200W RMS/ch to get the best out of the speakers. Indeed i switched to my Ground Zero 4x85W and GTO75.4 4x105W and yes speakers will not play as loud as driving them thru my EDGE 350.2 2x200W 4ohm, and also with those lower power two amps, at max volume speakers started to distort. Which don't happen with my LOW QUALITY Edge amp (because even if it's new, it's made for Eastern Europe market and is low quality brand)
I am a bit confused to the fact that i get bottom out popping on HPF 120HZ also (yess, pushing to the max volume of spotify/smartphone + max alpine HU), which is quite bass-loss and cone would not move as much. Probably if pushed to the max will also pop at HP 160HZ but that's so loud that i can't stay in the car and becomes unhealthy. I was just playing with these loudness levels because there is no way can listen to that.
Also i forgot to mention that my amplifier crossovers are set to full, doing the HP from HU, because i don't have yet my rear doors speakers installed. Would this affect?
Speaker wires (wf and even tweeter) are 2mm² so they are not restraining the signal power
The thing is i can't HP front speakers to 120HZ even with rear sp and subs, there will be no depth from the front stage this way.
So i would like to play a bit louder from the front, let's say to the 24-26 level from 35max, from a HP for ex at 80hz. Even at 80hz my roof is vibrating (i need to dampen that too)
They do sound good to the ear, excepting the player Alpine UTE72BT, if i turn off the IC (as it should driving by amplifier) i can't control the 3 band EQ so i don't have a center FQ and wide-narrow set-up. Also output from HU is only 2.4 V (probably at max vol 35) so lowe volume will lose a lot of signal.
I know they are not very expensive speakers but also not very cheap for me in Romania around 120USD is decent. I do like the sound of JBL suited for rock and hip-hop (mainly my music)
I mainly listen to spotify 90% of the music (was tinking to switch to Tidal for sound quality but i don't think is as good as music recomendation and playlists)
So i stream from my Galaxy S10+, which i played with phone's EQ 9 bands to get a clear sound.
I was thinking that may be a power related issue/phenomenon. JBL Claims that speakers can hadlo 5-200W RMS. Even on their official page there were some customers claiming to have 90w/ch amplifier and JBL recomending to step up to 200W RMS/ch to get the best out of the speakers. Indeed i switched to my Ground Zero 4x85W and GTO75.4 4x105W and yes speakers will not play as loud as driving them thru my EDGE 350.2 2x200W 4ohm, and also with those lower power two amps, at max volume speakers started to distort. Which don't happen with my LOW QUALITY Edge amp (because even if it's new, it's made for Eastern Europe market and is low quality brand)
I don't know edge but I'm willing to bet they are lying probably does a third to half of their claims, however still more power then the other 2. Your distortion is most likely clipping the amp and with JBL being a reputable brand, you are on the right track and feed them more clean power
Thanks for your reply. For the moment i've just bought the Ground Zero GZHA4120X (plan to use it for the front mids active, don't have them yet but looking for a decent buy/budged 7cm speakers because i don't have much space to place, driving visibility is a priority because 95% is done in crowded city) and i'm trading now the JBL 75.4 with a MAC Audio Fearless 4000D (150w x 4 and good specs on THD and SN) to use with the front JBL GTO 609C set and a set of mid-bass rear speakers, so that i will keep my actual running Edge 350.2 for the subs.
I am thinking if i should go with shallow two subs or just one regular.
1-what's your opinion about slim Subs? are they worth it? I wan't to build a custom trunk rack for 1 or 2 slim subs so the enclosure will be on hinges with strong anchor point so that can be placed to fire to the cabin and when i need to get somethinng long in the car (like a snowboard) to let them horizontally so i will have room from the trunk to the cabin
2-compared to this setup a regular sub (25/30cm in the rear right of the trunk in custom fiberglass enclosure? between the stop-light and wheel arch. This setup is making me thiking that will be just a vibration allover the car and not a sound that i can hear even at low volume and musicality?
I know i need a DSP and RTA mic but it's just out of the budget right now
I am thinking if i should go with shallow two subs or just one regular.
1-what's your opinion about slim Subs? are they worth it? I wan't to build a custom trunk rack for 1 or 2 slim subs so the enclosure will be on hinges with strong anchor point so that can be placed to fire to the cabin and when i need to get somethinng long in the car (like a snowboard) to let them horizontally so i will have room from the trunk to the cabin
2-compared to this setup a regular sub (25/30cm in the rear right of the trunk in custom fiberglass enclosure? between the stop-light and wheel arch. This setup is making me thiking that will be just a vibration allover the car and not a sound that i can hear even at low volume and musicality?
I know i need a DSP and RTA mic but it's just out of the budget right now
The tracks that bottoms out are produced with a lot of artificial, low frequency bass, that simply don't exists in a normal rock production - this is why some tracks are OK and others are not. No, DF wont fix it as others say. More Sd (cone area) and power is the cure - mind your ears - it feels fun now but wait t'll you get older and have tinnitus - you will curse yourself for playing tp loud for to long.
//
Thanks for clarify, as i listen to 50% rock/blues/chill out and 50% old school rap '90-'00, i figure at least rap music has synthetic bass.
I don't usually listen that loud, just ear pleasing levels but there are moment (few) when you want to listen a bit louder and enjoy the system.
Not to mention when some girl hops into the car and without a notice she turns the volume knob a little because we all know girls like loud music. So wouldn't want to get my speakers blown. I wouldn't mind to get me b' tho'
I'll surely get a subwoofer and HP the front speakers around 80-120hz that should be very ok for normal listening volume and also would add a 8cm front A pillars mid or widerange in completing the sound.
You are running off the head unit's internal power? That is maybe 16 watts on a good day. Likely it is the AMP actually popping, those built-ins are just chips and not so robust, so you don't want to be doing that.
Now if I misunderstand and you're running an external amp, you need to check for clipping with like a storage oscilloscope app. IF it's not clipping, then you have hit the limit of those woofers.
i'm running with a 2x200 W amp (JBL recomends using a 200w/channel amp to bring the speakers to life, they might be right because i've paired with a85w and 105w per channel and didn't they were not so alive)
At the moment i've set the gain to 150W per channel.
I think is mostly due to synthetic bass in hiphop songs or bad quality of song compression on spotify or usb mp3.
I will definitely get myself a small osciloscope since i'm starting this build as a project with 2 more amps, 2 subs, rear doors and front mids to be added
At the moment i've set the gain to 150W per channel.
I think is mostly due to synthetic bass in hiphop songs or bad quality of song compression on spotify or usb mp3.
I will definitely get myself a small osciloscope since i'm starting this build as a project with 2 more amps, 2 subs, rear doors and front mids to be added
It's an Edge 350.2 amp, a subdivision of VIBE.
The amp is set to flat and HP from the Alpine. The head unit internal amp is off, IC OFF.
I think that if i set the HP from the amp it filters much more so the bass would be off much more.
In the end my Alpine UTE72BT is an entry level piece of plastic and Alpine doesn't offer the same quality it had 10-15 years ago, that's for sure
The amp is set to flat and HP from the Alpine. The head unit internal amp is off, IC OFF.
I think that if i set the HP from the amp it filters much more so the bass would be off much more.
In the end my Alpine UTE72BT is an entry level piece of plastic and Alpine doesn't offer the same quality it had 10-15 years ago, that's for sure
1. I do not care for shallow/slim sub woofers personally. I would rather go with a quality 10 on either side of the trunk and amplifier rack hanging from the rear deck if need a pass through.
2.the enclosure tuning and matching with your driver choice is going to determine the musical factor.
However I'm probably the wrong person to ask opinion on what sub choice as mine weigh 100lbs each and have almost a 5" Xmax peak to peak excursion.
Not sure on your market but Brazilian manufacturers have very well priced processors. Another one is Nakamichi whom has a very fair priced DSP. Phone analyzer apps give you a idea and gives me the same reading as my rta mic. Not exactly needed but gets you in the neighborhood
Thanks. The amp rack i will build on the trunk's floor with metal net for heat disipation and probably some small ventilators to pus in-pull out the air. A little bit of show build.
I will need to decide around type of subwoofer and budget also, because don't want to spend a lot on this, probably 2 shallow 10"/12" subs will do the job, something like Dayton Audio, JBL, MTX, which has the lowest mounting depth for me would be the choice probably, i'm pretty sure will do the job.
As processor wise, i've seen the PRV is very appreciated even if it's 15 bands not 30. Also the Dayton Audio DSP is very appreciated. Probably not the same sound quality as some Alpine, Audison not to mention Helix or Zapco, these are out of the budget by way way much.
Regarding Nakamichi i've couldn't find too much info on it, i know the brand but i've seen some reviews about their amps and it seems that Nakamichi is just the name these days, haven't got a thing to the old gear performance.
Also i've seen some online reviews about a couple of chinese DSP brands that made people quite pleased with the sound quality.