Hi ! sorry if i jump in but i really need some advice on car audio amps.
First of all i have absolutely no experience with car audio.
I do not listen when i drive for safety reasons (the music distracts me a lot).
Anyway ... i see many car audio amps around ... new and used.
So i thought about using one of them as a power amp in my stereo system.
I have already bought this to power it ...
LEDMO 12V 20A Alimentatore Interruttore AC 110/240V to DC Trasformatore di Alimentazione 240W: Amazon.it: Fai da te
One thing that i like very much is the gain control that can be found on i guess all car audio amp. I have a preamp with a high gain and that attenuator could be very useful for me.
So the question is ... what to buy ? i really need only 20-30 Watt/channel but with good current
Any advice and suggestion would be very welcomed and appreciated.
Kind regards, gino
First of all i have absolutely no experience with car audio.
I do not listen when i drive for safety reasons (the music distracts me a lot).
Anyway ... i see many car audio amps around ... new and used.
So i thought about using one of them as a power amp in my stereo system.
I have already bought this to power it ...
LEDMO 12V 20A Alimentatore Interruttore AC 110/240V to DC Trasformatore di Alimentazione 240W: Amazon.it: Fai da te
One thing that i like very much is the gain control that can be found on i guess all car audio amp. I have a preamp with a high gain and that attenuator could be very useful for me.
So the question is ... what to buy ? i really need only 20-30 Watt/channel but with good current
Any advice and suggestion would be very welcomed and appreciated.
Kind regards, gino
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Hi!
thanks a lot for the kind reply.
i do not know if it is the same as with home amps ... but some home amps double the power when the load pass from 8 to 4 ohms. I am not expecting that much but i would like an amp that has no problem with low impedance loads. I do not need big power on 8 ohm because i listen at low level.
But i like a decent bass ... some amps are just weak in the lower part of the audio range.
For instance, can the old Pioneer GM series be a good start ? which model in particular ? or really any other brand with solid built quality would be fine.
I have line preamps that have a very high voltage gain (like 6 times) and now the sound gets loud with small rotations of the volume.
I see on the car audio amps trimmers to attenuate the input ... this is very convenient for me (they should put them also on home power amps a very useful feature indeed).
I am everything but an expert but i am impressed by the quality of these car audio amps. At least from an aesthetic point of view. They are simply gorgeous outside and inside. Very nice
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There is no commercially available that will have trouble driving that load.
If a car amp doubles the power when the load is 1/2 it's because it has a regulated power supply. It means nothing about the quality of the amp.
Virtually every sales pitch about car amps is garbage. Some people will say that one amp sounds better than another but if it does, it's likely due to something in the preamp section or from having more headroom (more power). Car amps use global feedback which will correct for any distortion in the power amplifier section.
Many of the old pioneer amps have problems with reliability due to bad solder connections. The GM series covers a lot of amps.
If a car amp doubles the power when the load is 1/2 it's because it has a regulated power supply. It means nothing about the quality of the amp.
Virtually every sales pitch about car amps is garbage. Some people will say that one amp sounds better than another but if it does, it's likely due to something in the preamp section or from having more headroom (more power). Car amps use global feedback which will correct for any distortion in the power amplifier section.
Many of the old pioneer amps have problems with reliability due to bad solder connections. The GM series covers a lot of amps.
Thanks a lot. This is a good news. Common speakers are at least 4 ohm on average. Great !
Very helpful and thanks again for that. Sound quality wise do you think that car audio amps are comparable to home power amps ? to listen to them i have to buy them first
... that is the real problem and i could end with a unit with bad sound or as you say reliability issues
So i will avoid those. I need 20-30W/channel ... not more for now. I am living in a rented small flat with sensitive neighbours. But if the approach will work in the future i could go up with power.
Thanks a lot again.
The circuits in car amps may or may not be identical to those used in some home amps. Home amps can vary a bit more than car amps because some use circuits that actually influence the way it sounds (the output isn't an exact reproduction of the input). That's rare in car amps, as far as the power amplifier section is concerned.
All of this has been for solid state amps. Tube amps are a completely different animal.
All of this has been for solid state amps. Tube amps are a completely different animal.
Very interesting. Do you mean that overall car audio amps are usually very transparent to the source ? this is very important. I think i will try one soon ... just to get started.
i would use tubes only in the preamp section at max. But i like solid state much more. Maybe i have to live without the famous tube midrange ... but on the bass solid state amps are unbeatable.
For line preamp i am thinking about it seriously. Tubes give dimension to the sound ... maybe it is just a trick ?
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If the amp is in good working order, the output will be a perfect copy of the input but amplified. Again, this is for the power amplifier stage. The preamp section can vary a lot.
The tube amps are more difficult. A good speaker/tube amp combination is wonderful but speakers will sound different on various tube amps. Some good, some not so good. This is typically due to the varying impedance of the speakers and the way the tube amp reacts to that variation. I'm no authority on tube equipment.
The tube amps are more difficult. A good speaker/tube amp combination is wonderful but speakers will sound different on various tube amps. Some good, some not so good. This is typically due to the varying impedance of the speakers and the way the tube amp reacts to that variation. I'm no authority on tube equipment.
This is very important for me to know. Thanks again for your kind and valuable advice. Then the difference between amps with the same power can be related maybe to reliability ? or the fact that some can run for long period at high power ? because i see very different prices from brand to brand.
this is the field of my main DIY activity. Line preamps. I am not at all able to design anything ... i just cannibalize schematics around said to sound decent. But usually i end with prototypes with high voltage gain ... like 5-6 times And in the case of tubes voltage gains of 10 just for line duties are not unusual. So the gain control on car audio amps can be very convenient for me in my testing.
If the sound is a non issue than reliability can be ?
Are there brands famous for reliability ?
tubes are more difficult to place in the room than solid state amps especially when tubes are exposed. I love tube midrange but i cannot stand tube bass ... it is just not a bass For instance this is very evident listening to pipe organs tracks ... or double bass tracks With tube the sound is smeared, weak, not controlled ... not sufficient for me I like rock solid bass.
Thanks again.
Reliability isn't necessarily related to price. I had a friend that sold a cheap brand of amps and sold a lot of them and had almost 0 fail.
Soundstream has generally had a good reputation (although the new stuff isn't related to the old stuff, that was reliable) and some models (not all) have such an awful design flaw (mechanical/physical, not electronic) that they will fail, virtually 100%. The flaw is well known and has been known forever but some designers still use it.
Soundstream has generally had a good reputation (although the new stuff isn't related to the old stuff, that was reliable) and some models (not all) have such an awful design flaw (mechanical/physical, not electronic) that they will fail, virtually 100%. The flaw is well known and has been known forever but some designers still use it.
Perfect i see. As i said the amp should allow me to check the sound of my line preamps prototypes and of course enjoy music. I have seen that with max attenuation at the input sensitivity can be also 10V .... this is very good for me because i could use more of the preamp gain
Usually noise and distortion are lower in preamps
In the end the amp will add the current necessary to drive the speakers
I remember in the old days some devices called boosters ? ... i guess they must have been amps with very low voltage gain and high current gain. They would be just ideal for my purposes ... with the preamp providing all the necessary voltage gain.
A line preamp has usually absolutely no problem in delivery about 10V on a 10 kohm load with very low noise and distortion.
10V on a 4 ohm load mean v^2/R=25 Watt ... perfect for me
i do not need more than that ... for now at least
I have played around with this, not to any serious extent though.
I have found that in order to compare to good home audio amplifiers, the simpler the amp the better.
The signal processing and filtering built into them tends to be quite rudimentary compared to decent home line level stuff, as perry says.
I notice a degradation of stereo image usually.
I have found that in order to compare to good home audio amplifiers, the simpler the amp the better.
The signal processing and filtering built into them tends to be quite rudimentary compared to decent home line level stuff, as perry says.
I notice a degradation of stereo image usually.
Clearly not a sane idea at all. Thanks again.
Hi thank you very much for the very helpful advice. I think that stereo image is very telling of and amp qualities.
I see that almost all amps have some kind of crossover ? i wonder which brand has the most "minimalist" approach. Clearly stereo image is very important for me. Decisive i would say. What i like is the attenuator almost always present. I like to use as much as possible of the voltage gain in the preamp.
When i see some preamps lab measurements i am always amazed to see how they can deliver 10 but even 20V with almost zero noise and distortion ... perfection
An example
https://www.stereophile.com/images/315B2110fig6.jpg
if limited power is enough it is just a matter of adding current. I should look for a high current buffer instead ? but they are more rare than a red cow ...
Thanks a lot again to all
gino
How do you define 'stereo image'?
In most amps, you can bypass the crossovers and other signal processor circuits.
Not too many amps will take more than about 10v and you may need to make modifications to get them to take that. The gain control markings or the owner's manual may tell you what they can take. Most amps are quiet enough at minimum gain. It's not like you're going to use it as a headphone amplifier that has to be almost completely silent.
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In most amps, you can bypass the crossovers and other signal processor circuits.
Not too many amps will take more than about 10v and you may need to make modifications to get them to take that. The gain control markings or the owner's manual may tell you what they can take. Most amps are quiet enough at minimum gain. It's not like you're going to use it as a headphone amplifier that has to be almost completely silent.
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I'd look for second hand a/d/s/ car amplificatori (a 250mx if you need 2 channels would be good).
I had used a 450mx for years in my home system with no issues.. with a less than optimal pc psu.. if I recall correctly you can use low level signal (from preamp) and high level signal (from an amplifier).
I had used a 450mx for years in my home system with no issues.. with a less than optimal pc psu.. if I recall correctly you can use low level signal (from preamp) and high level signal (from an amplifier).
Some recordings can transmit the feeling to be in the place where the recording has been taken And this is for me just enthralling
Of course playback system and even more important listening room must be up to the task.
I have a recording for instance in a test cd that helps to evaluate the ability of the couple audio system+room to provide this effect.
I tried it many many times ... most of the time the sound is flat, bidimensional with no depth ... sometimes instead i get some depth.
However i think that the room is more important than the system ... i have to say this
Yes. I have seen that gain control that i like a lot. Now that i think better i could place a dual pot on the back of my power amp ? is this a silly idea ?
I think the rule is to place more gain in the element of the chain with the lowest noise and distortion.
The digital sources without attenuation can be around 1-2V ... a gain of 5 provides 10V out of the preamp. I preamp can output 10V with almost no noise and no distortion. The last active stage has only to add 2-3 times voltage gain and lot of current (for normal use)
30V means more than 100W on a 8 ohm load. I have decided to use only efficient speakers ...
As i said above i have been searching for a so called high power buffer, no voltage gain only current gain to drive speakers.
There is something on the Pass forum i think ...
I will do it from now on
Hi thanks a lot for the valuable suggestion. I should have said that i live in europe and shipping and custom costs from USA add a lot to the initial price.
I would need a global brand suggestion ...
very interesting. I understand they can be quite reliable. And did you like also the sound ?
Hi ! thanks a lot indeed. Alpine is very common also in Europe and in the used market. Great brand. Can you tell any series/model in particular ? i just need 2 channel and some 30 Watts but robust (i.e. good current)
Hi ! thanks ! found one now ... Phoenix Gold zx400 ti - Audio/Video In vendita a Pistoia
about 250USD ... is it a good price ? i would love to buy from the USA but i have to add shipping and custom ...
As i said i have just to add some current to the signal out from my preamps to drive some speakers of decent efficiency
The gain control will be very handy in doing this ... i will set sensitivity to minimum
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