Alpine PWD-X5 sub/amp/DSP pairing with which speakers?

[Cidious]

My new Mazda 3 2.0 arrived from the factory this week.. I didn't olt for the Bose Soundsystem because I know it's horrible too. Not much upgrade over the standard 4 channel system

I started to do the sound deadening already 2 layers (butyl and cotton) through the car and a total of 4 layers (2 layers butyl, 1 layer of dense foam and 1 layer of cotton) in the doors. When I start with the doors I'll replace the speakers too.

The standard speakers are paper coned coffee cups... And the head unit is kind of over engineered increasing treble when Increasing the volume.

So what I want/need to do is replacing the DSP and preferably amp and speakers. And to let the door speakers perform better adding a subwoofer would be a clever thing to do too. To handle the low frequencies.

But the car is brand new and I'm not interested in customizing it too heavily and having cables everywhere or investing a fortune on components. Also I want clean installation and if the wiring is good enough preferably use the already laid out factory wiring for now so I can always put the original system back in a jiffy.


What I need:

2 x 6.5" component speakers
2x 6.5" coaxial speakers
1x subwoofer
1x amp
1x DSP

I've put my budget on about €750 (about 5750 RMB since I'm in China)

My eye has fallen on a new type of product the Alpine PWD-X5. An 8" low profile subwoofer with built in 4.1 channel amp AND DSP.

25W x 4 (@ 4 ohm) + 165W RMS (for subwoofer)
50W x 4 (@ 4 ohm) + 240W Peak (for subwoofer)
4 RCA/Speaker Level Inputs

Which is not much for the seperate channels if you ask me barely above the stock unit I guess which I would have no clue of its rating anyway.

Now I really like the idea of running just one cable to the sub/amp/DSP and using all standard wiring. So I'm trying to make it work with this unit. But this comes at a price that I can't just pair it with any type of speaker that I want.

My eye first fell on the infinity reference series but I've got a really good offer on some Alpine SPG too.

Infinity Reference 6530CX
Description 6-1/2" (160mm) component speaker system
Power Handling 90W RMS, 270W peak
Sensitivity (@ 2.83V) 93dB
Frequency Response 53Hz – 21kHz
Impedance 3.0 ohms

Infinity Reference 6532IX
Description 6-1/2" (160mm) coaxial car speaker
Power Handling 60W RMS, 180W peak
Sensitivity (@ 2.83V) 93dB
Frequency Response 53Hz – 21kHz
Impedance 3.0 ohms

Which have nice low impedance and high sensitivity which makes me believe to pair better with the low powered amp or even stock unit.


Then I am looking at the Alpine SPG to get a nice pairing and many people liked the ALPINE SPS series for it's smoother sound.

Alpine SPG-17CS
Description 6-1/2" (160mm) component car speaker
Power Handling 70W RMS, 280W peak
Sensitivity 88.5dB 1W (1m)
Frequency Response 68Hz – 20kHz
Impedance 4.0 ohms

Alpine SPG-17C2
Description 6-1/2" (160mm) coaxial car speaker
Power Handling 60W RMS, 240W peak
Sensitivity 88.5dB 1W (1m)
Frequency Response 68Hz – 20kHz
Impedance 4.0 ohms


As compared above the Infinities are more sensitive and efficient to drive. This makes me lean towards the Infinities.

I really want to try to refrain from using an extra power amp and use the best speakers possible with this setup.


My guts tells me to use the infinity reference because they seem to be build more for low power (stock) amps. The numbers tell me that.. but we all know numbers are sometimes not the whole story.

Also since I'll add a subwoofer I'll relieve the door speakers a bit from heavy duty and more power hungry lower frequencies.


I really need a bit of a push here. As of now I'm gunning for the Infinity Reference but I might be totally wrong.

Any advice on the whole matter?
Thanks guys (and girls)

 

[Osvaldo de Banfield]

Respectfully, is it all needed to listen music in a car, during few minutes at a day?

 

[Cidious]

Wow.. that is the most useless answer I could expect.

I'll respond anyway.

I drive many hours a day to start with. Hence the sound deadening throughout the car to keep it calm inside so I can make my work related phone calls and listen to music. Think about traffic jams and highway trips.

Then second point is. This is an audio Diy community... This is what we do... Make audio sound a little better.. in a room or a car.. what's the difference?

If you have nothing useful to respond. Why respond? Seems like a waste of my time and yours.

 

[Perry Babin]

Unless you have the reviews of many people you trust to be audiophiles, you need to listen to the speakers you intend to buy. A speaker can have great specs and sound awful.

 

[Cidious]

I know how they sound. I'm more worried about power specifications. Asking if 25 watts would be technically enough to drive either of these sets if I'll use the subwoofer to unload them from more demanding low frequencies a bit. Less low frequencies is less power requirement right. Let's say I put the crossover at 80hz. They would have a much easier job with midbass. And use less power right?

Or am I totally wrong ?

 

[Perry Babin]

The specs don't mean much unless you're comparing the specs from only one manufacturer and even then they're not reliable.

If you know how they sound, that must mean that you've listened to them. Go back and listen to them with a standard head unit. That's the power that you'll get from the Alpine. Are they loud enough?

Remember, what's loud to one person isn't the same to another.

If Alpine has designed the sub to match to an average set of speakers, it's probably not that loud to have to overcome.

Can the alpine drive 3 ohms? If you drive long periods and listen at near full power (not much at 25w/ch), the 3 ohms may be an issue.

 

[Cidious]

Thanks. That's useful info.

Alpine offers other speaker series.

SPS but they seem even less efficient. But longer in the market so maybe people know if they can be driven at stock power.

Another option would be the much cheaper SPC series. Which are designed to replace factory speakers with stock unit. But they probably won't offer the same audio quality as the more expensive series.

I also have no option to listen to them. The infinity I have heard on an external amp so well driven. The SPG I haven't heard yet but I did hear the SPS which sounded very smooth to me.

Maybe I should just get a set of speakers that is fairly rated as sensitive and put them in with the stock unit and see if it's loud enough. Then the subwoofer would improve it more.

 

[Cidious]

8I pulled the trigger. Decided to go with the whole Alpine set with the speakers that Alpine recommends to go with the unit the SPC series. At least it's balanced for each other and should give me a decent enough upgrade over the HORRIBLE stock system. I'll get the set at a discount price of 4000 RMB. IN Australia it costs about 6000 RMB due to import costs. Alpine has been a reliable brand for many years and I trust it should at least work well together.

I ordered it and I'll let you guys know the result when I finished installing. Thanks for the tips.

 

[Cidious]

Got the kit. And even though it all looks pretty decent I want to look if I can make some upgrades to make it a bit more potent.

Capacitors are mostly Elna Silmics and some more generic ones for the non signal path positions. Don't know which brand d the solid caps are but they seem Chinese cheap.
.. 220uf and so small and dents in them everywhere.

What I would like to achieve with this unit is a bit more output power on the 4 channels to the speakers. I think the subwoofer has enough power being driven with 3 amp lines from a single mosfet.

What I had planned is upgrading the big 3300uf Elna caps for some Pana FC 5600UF caps to start with. And then replacing the Mosfets with more potent ones.

The ones used are TDA7560 which are rated 4x45 watt. I found they are compatible with TDA7850 @4x50W, PA2030A @ 4x60W and maybe the most interesting option which I'm looking into TDA7868 rated at 4x100W.

The Pioneer PA2030A is supposed to be a TDA7850 underneath why I find it a little curious why it has a 4x60W rating.

The TDA7868 is a huge step up in power output with more than double the power. I'm a little worried its not a simple drop in replacement.

Why I want to get a bit more power output ? I want to hook up a set of less sensitive speakers and be able to drive them a bit harder while keeping all the benefits of the package. DSP + powered subwoofer etc.

Any thoughts on the matter guys ?

 

[Perry Babin]

Upgrading the caps is a waste of time and any perceived benefit will be purely imaginary.

There's no way to get more power from the amp. It's all designed to do what it does and nothing more.

 

[Cidious]

Replacing the Mosfets. They are active components...replacing cap is to support mosfet change with power draw c

 

[Cidious]

Update:

A lot has happened since I installed the new kit.

Dampening and installing. I ran into a nasty whine on the rear speakers and the Mazda infotainment unit as a DAC and pre-amp is underwhelming.

I had to move the ground around and relocate the powerline and shield it here and there to get rid of the whining. I also installed a double pair of crossovers but now I'm doubting if the crossover frequency is ok.

The woofers are 6.5" with a 1" soft dome tweeter. The components in the front came with a simple inductor and 4.7uf capacitor as a HPF and the rear coaxials only had a 4.7uf capacitor in series.

I have no clue what the specsheet of the dome tweeters and I have no idea how to reverse engineer the original kit to usable numbers.

Can anyone help me out here and point me in the right direction. The crossovers I have now are 12db 3300hz. My guts say it's a bit high but who knows what these 1" dome tweeters are supposed to do..