I've enjoyed the audio systems BMW have made in the E90 from the hifi system and up, but I believe I could make it a bit better. I hear the hifi system has no equalization, so it's an easier upgrade.
The two main challenges are mounting and size limits. I believe the mids/full ranges are 4", so that's what I have to work with. I don't have a large budget, otherwise this exercise would have been easier. My plan is to upgrade the mid and high for now, and then one day when I have a bit of money to upgrade the woofers (I have a question about that lower down).
I could buy an MTX drop-in upgrade, but it's R6000, and the rear speakers aren't upgraded. That's much much more than I can afford. So I spent hours and hours deciding what combination to use. I badly wanted JL Audio C1 402 for the rear, but I couldn't justify the R1100 spend on the rear speakers. I looked at Hertz DCX 100.3 and Alpine SPG-10C2. The Alpines were really attractive, I was just wanting a little more low end in the back.
For the front, I needed 4" components, and finding that is quite a task here in SA (for a budget). I considered Orion CO400C, and I still can't decide if I made the right choice, but I decided against them because they only have a HPF for the tweeter, and I don't trust midranges without a crossover. I could then decide between Targa TG-4020ZC (cheap stuff available here, but very good results) and a Starsound component system. I've had great results with Starsound 6" splits, but the 4" just didn't inspire me. The Targa have 25mm silk tweeters and proper 12 dB crossovers. I went with Targa's.
Because I decided on Targa, I used the shop which sold them the cheapest (out of 2, coincidentally a shop I like, and R100 difference (almost 20%)). So I could then choose my rear speakers. I probably should have gone with Hertz, but the price with a mylar tweeter, and I'm not sure, and..... So my final choice was down to <R500 speakers. My shortlist was JBL GT5-402 and MTX TR40C. Same price, very difficult choice. I like JBL. I looked up some pictures, and the titanium laminate tweeter was something I wasn't too sure about. The build quality of the MTX looked better, and MTX is a top brand, so I went with them.
Considering that I want to upgrade, but also limit my budget, the risk is that I spend money and get little to no improvement, however, I do have another use for the speakers if the upgrade fails.
I plan to install everything soon, and when I do, I want to see if I can add sound deadening at all. I'll do the install without cutting wires, and I'll put updates here. When I eventually do the woofers, I might put in 6" rather that 8". If I can get better 6" for the cost, is it a better option, or should I stick to the 8" size? In the distant future I want to eventually add an amplifier, but for now I think the BMW one is quite ok. I think it's 25Wx4 and 40Wx2. I'm wanting more of a sound quality system, not a panel-shaker.
I want to do this as an experiment as well. Is it possible to upgrade BMW audio significantly without buying a BMW drop-in system, and at an extreme budget?
What do you think of my choices?
The two main challenges are mounting and size limits. I believe the mids/full ranges are 4", so that's what I have to work with. I don't have a large budget, otherwise this exercise would have been easier. My plan is to upgrade the mid and high for now, and then one day when I have a bit of money to upgrade the woofers (I have a question about that lower down).
I could buy an MTX drop-in upgrade, but it's R6000, and the rear speakers aren't upgraded. That's much much more than I can afford. So I spent hours and hours deciding what combination to use. I badly wanted JL Audio C1 402 for the rear, but I couldn't justify the R1100 spend on the rear speakers. I looked at Hertz DCX 100.3 and Alpine SPG-10C2. The Alpines were really attractive, I was just wanting a little more low end in the back.
For the front, I needed 4" components, and finding that is quite a task here in SA (for a budget). I considered Orion CO400C, and I still can't decide if I made the right choice, but I decided against them because they only have a HPF for the tweeter, and I don't trust midranges without a crossover. I could then decide between Targa TG-4020ZC (cheap stuff available here, but very good results) and a Starsound component system. I've had great results with Starsound 6" splits, but the 4" just didn't inspire me. The Targa have 25mm silk tweeters and proper 12 dB crossovers. I went with Targa's.
Because I decided on Targa, I used the shop which sold them the cheapest (out of 2, coincidentally a shop I like, and R100 difference (almost 20%)). So I could then choose my rear speakers. I probably should have gone with Hertz, but the price with a mylar tweeter, and I'm not sure, and..... So my final choice was down to <R500 speakers. My shortlist was JBL GT5-402 and MTX TR40C. Same price, very difficult choice. I like JBL. I looked up some pictures, and the titanium laminate tweeter was something I wasn't too sure about. The build quality of the MTX looked better, and MTX is a top brand, so I went with them.
Considering that I want to upgrade, but also limit my budget, the risk is that I spend money and get little to no improvement, however, I do have another use for the speakers if the upgrade fails.
I plan to install everything soon, and when I do, I want to see if I can add sound deadening at all. I'll do the install without cutting wires, and I'll put updates here. When I eventually do the woofers, I might put in 6" rather that 8". If I can get better 6" for the cost, is it a better option, or should I stick to the 8" size? In the distant future I want to eventually add an amplifier, but for now I think the BMW one is quite ok. I think it's 25Wx4 and 40Wx2. I'm wanting more of a sound quality system, not a panel-shaker.
I want to do this as an experiment as well. Is it possible to upgrade BMW audio significantly without buying a BMW drop-in system, and at an extreme budget?
What do you think of my choices?
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Get a pair of Faitalpro 4FE32 for the front midranges, some Vifa OC25 tweeters (very cheap and if used correctly, are ok) and underseat you`ll be limited to SWS-8 (price/performance) or have to design spacers and use the pretty good Morel MW266.
Changing the stock components to the ones shown in your post will not be an upgrade. Most basic BMW systems don`t have a tweeter - only a midwoofer run fullrange. Add the OC25 or a Monacor DT75 (both fit, the later has to be trimmed) with some passive crossover and you`d be much happier than putting a piece of Asia deep jungle designed and built junk.
Changing the stock components to the ones shown in your post will not be an upgrade. Most basic BMW systems don`t have a tweeter - only a midwoofer run fullrange. Add the OC25 or a Monacor DT75 (both fit, the later has to be trimmed) with some passive crossover and you`d be much happier than putting a piece of Asia deep jungle designed and built junk.
I live in South Africa, so access to everything you listed, other than the SWS-8, is impossible without big shipping costs.
As I said, I have the hifi system, which has tweeters in the front, and a dedicated amplifier.
SWS-8 is massively expensive.
I hear what you're saying with "get better stuff", but that defeats the point because better stuff is too expensive. How much better is Hertz DCX 100.3 than MTX TR40C, and is that bit of better SQ worth double the price? That's why I went with the MTX.
I hope you're wrong about this not being an upgrade.
And thanks for the input.
I hope you're wrong about this not being an upgrade.
Sorry but I agree with Mario on this and on the faital pro's which I am installing in my car now. If you like to tinker then go ahead and experiment, but the stuff you are putting in is likely to be inferior to the stock BMW audio.
Do you have wrecking yards there? Research what cars have high end audio and try and find stuff that way. I look for dynaudio stuff in Volkswagens and volvos. Also 4" is a perfect size for mids. People think that seems too small when actually you are lucky to have that size, because it is perfect. 8" is also perfect for midbass, I would not ever ever ever change that to a 6".
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Thanks Bret burrill! I'll post my findings soon. I'm sure the MTX 2-ways will be an upgrade because at least I'm replacing a midrange with a 2-way. The Targa is a long shot.
If I could spend more right now, I'd have the JL Audio C2's by now. Faital Pro I'm not sure I can get here, and scrap yards are not ideal here. Mechanical parts, yes, but audio I think is impossible.
I'm going to see if my 10" subs will fit in where the 8's are now - they obviously won't fit in the enclosure, but possibly with magnet up and a little adapter, they might fit under the seats.
If I could spend more right now, I'd have the JL Audio C2's by now. Faital Pro I'm not sure I can get here, and scrap yards are not ideal here. Mechanical parts, yes, but audio I think is impossible.
I'm going to see if my 10" subs will fit in where the 8's are now - they obviously won't fit in the enclosure, but possibly with magnet up and a little adapter, they might fit under the seats.
All ye people with little faith! I'll show the world! My 4" splits are going to cause windows to break and people to scatter!
I just wanted to add that the Targa has been a happy surprise so far, in terms of physical properties. It has a magnesium cone with what appears to be a low mechanical Q - it's really stiff! The basket and materials seem to be much better than the price. I think the manufacturing cost is where money was saved - there is a bit of glue showing where the dust cap meets the cone, and the magnets aren't perfectly aligned... But at least the cone moves freely and the magnet is vented. I believe the voice coil is on a kapton former. My main concern would be driver matching, but this is in a car, so that's not all that important...
I just wanted to add that the Targa has been a happy surprise so far, in terms of physical properties. It has a magnesium cone with what appears to be a low mechanical Q - it's really stiff! The basket and materials seem to be much better than the price. I think the manufacturing cost is where money was saved - there is a bit of glue showing where the dust cap meets the cone, and the magnets aren't perfectly aligned... But at least the cone moves freely and the magnet is vented. I believe the voice coil is on a kapton former. My main concern would be driver matching, but this is in a car, so that's not all that important...
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Wantitall.co.za, thesoundguy.co.za - both sell Faitals in South Africa. All it takes is a single search on google...
The scrapyard suggestion is indeed a smart way to find some good speakers - Volvos have a carbon fiber 8" front door woofer which is among the slimmest I have seen - can go underseat and these sell cheap over ebay. Then you go for the Faitals and some tweeter, whatever you can find. Cheap and will sound good.
The scrapyard suggestion is indeed a smart way to find some good speakers - Volvos have a carbon fiber 8" front door woofer which is among the slimmest I have seen - can go underseat and these sell cheap over ebay. Then you go for the Faitals and some tweeter, whatever you can find. Cheap and will sound good.
I'll admit 4FE32 aren't too expensive at R950 a pair, delivered.
I have an online shopping rule: Don't buy from wantitall.
Please note that I paid R950, including delivery for everything.
I don't think anyone could understand how it works with scrapped audio stuff in SA; it vanishes very quickly into the townships. I'm also not keen on going to a scrap yard during work time, and I don't have time on weekends to do what is 99% probability a fruitless exercise.
Ok, so I've done initial listening tests. As expected, the mylar tweeters sound like mylar tweeters. Continuing with the MTX, although there is a little ringing in the tweeters, it's not prominent. The MTX will almost 100% certainly be an upgrade for the rear speakers. Distortion appears to be much lower than expected. Very happy with bang for buck; I'm really impressed.
The Targa have some good qualities and some bad. Distortion is quite bad in two narrow bands in the low midrange. The tweeters are as good as I hoped. Other than the mentioned distortion, they sound nice. If they don't improve stock, I'm going to put them into a Bluetooth project I've been wanting to do. So far, no ugly surprises.
I have an online shopping rule: Don't buy from wantitall.
Please note that I paid R950, including delivery for everything.
I don't think anyone could understand how it works with scrapped audio stuff in SA; it vanishes very quickly into the townships. I'm also not keen on going to a scrap yard during work time, and I don't have time on weekends to do what is 99% probability a fruitless exercise.
Ok, so I've done initial listening tests. As expected, the mylar tweeters sound like mylar tweeters. Continuing with the MTX, although there is a little ringing in the tweeters, it's not prominent. The MTX will almost 100% certainly be an upgrade for the rear speakers. Distortion appears to be much lower than expected. Very happy with bang for buck; I'm really impressed.
The Targa have some good qualities and some bad. Distortion is quite bad in two narrow bands in the low midrange. The tweeters are as good as I hoped. Other than the mentioned distortion, they sound nice. If they don't improve stock, I'm going to put them into a Bluetooth project I've been wanting to do. So far, no ugly surprises.
I have a question. I have read that the mids get an equalized and crossed over signal from 110~150Hz from the amplifier. Regardless of this, I would like to fit a proper amplifier for the front and rear speakers (4-ch). How do I get the proper unequalized signal? As far as I know, the signal is on a MOST bus. Can one not obtain a BMW MOST to analog converter?
Perhaps I'm lucky and my car's audio signals are analog already. I have read some evidence of this. If this is indeed the case, I have a use for my 4-ch amplifier I already have! And after Saturday, I can get to installing the 2-ch I already have, and power the existing woofers with that. Awesome! I just hope the ydidn't use the optic connection in the LCI.
Perhaps I'm lucky and my car's audio signals are analog already. I have read some evidence of this. If this is indeed the case, I have a use for my 4-ch amplifier I already have! And after Saturday, I can get to installing the 2-ch I already have, and power the existing woofers with that. Awesome! I just hope the ydidn't use the optic connection in the LCI.
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Speakers are installed, and I have a few conclusions.
The MTX speakers are excellent! A definite big upgrade over the stock speakers. The Targa splits have very low sensitivity, but at least they do level out the midrange peak that was prevalent in the stock speakers. Treble is very well defined. So I think I'll stay with the Targa's.
The main conclusion is that amplifiers and subs are definitely necessary, not optional. Those speakers need headroom, and the woofers just can't do loud. I'll see if I can fit 10" under the seats, mounted upside down. The amps are going in this week; the sound is not balanced right now. At least the speakers are sounding good.
The MTX speakers are excellent! A definite big upgrade over the stock speakers. The Targa splits have very low sensitivity, but at least they do level out the midrange peak that was prevalent in the stock speakers. Treble is very well defined. So I think I'll stay with the Targa's.
The main conclusion is that amplifiers and subs are definitely necessary, not optional. Those speakers need headroom, and the woofers just can't do loud. I'll see if I can fit 10" under the seats, mounted upside down. The amps are going in this week; the sound is not balanced right now. At least the speakers are sounding good.
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