I have a 2013 Buick Verano, a car which not many people seem to be doing aftermarket sound systems on.
A short summary of my car audio system:
· 4 JL Coaxials, 50 watts RMS per speaker at 4 ohms in all 4 doors. Powered by a JL 360/4 amp. Amp is capable of 70 watts 4 ohm or 90 watts 2 ohm
· 2 Alpine tweeters in the dash powered by the stock head unit. Tweeters are 4 ohm and capable of 150 w RMS each (450 peak, which doesn't really matter)
· 2 JL W3V3 subs powered by a JL 500/1D amp, but my question doesn't have to do with subs.
I can’t replace the head unit, so I have an Audiocontrol DQ-61 OEM processor hooked in. The timing adjustment doesn't work correctly since my dash tweeters are not connected to the processor, so any timing adjustment I make between front and sub creates an echo between the doors and tweeters, right now timing is adjusted for the tweeters and door speakers to be timed the same, and the sub is a bit off.
I'm considering 2 different options, 1 far more expensive than the other.
Tri-amping my system with an amp for tweeters, amp for door speakers and an amp for subs, using a pre-out from the 4 channel to feed a 2 channel amp.
OR
Wiring the tweeters in parallel with the front door speakers by splicing and soldering in the tweeters before the door speakers, creating a 2 ohm load.
My processor can EQ front speakers to account for the extra higher frequencies. The tweeters also have outboard crossovers with DB adjustment from 0 db to -6 db.
The only thing I'm worried about with doing this is the wattage being delivered to the door speakers as the amp is now able to produce 90 watts at 2 ohms, as I'll be running a 2 ohm load in parallel, but the door speakers can only take 50w each, tweeters can take full power from my amp. Its nearly impossible for me to wire the tweeters in with the door speakers in series, parallel is my only option. Would this be a good idea as opposed to tri-amping? Is there any better ideas as of what I could do to get my dash tweeters amped and timed perfectly with my doors?
A short summary of my car audio system:
· 4 JL Coaxials, 50 watts RMS per speaker at 4 ohms in all 4 doors. Powered by a JL 360/4 amp. Amp is capable of 70 watts 4 ohm or 90 watts 2 ohm
· 2 Alpine tweeters in the dash powered by the stock head unit. Tweeters are 4 ohm and capable of 150 w RMS each (450 peak, which doesn't really matter)
· 2 JL W3V3 subs powered by a JL 500/1D amp, but my question doesn't have to do with subs.
I can’t replace the head unit, so I have an Audiocontrol DQ-61 OEM processor hooked in. The timing adjustment doesn't work correctly since my dash tweeters are not connected to the processor, so any timing adjustment I make between front and sub creates an echo between the doors and tweeters, right now timing is adjusted for the tweeters and door speakers to be timed the same, and the sub is a bit off.
I'm considering 2 different options, 1 far more expensive than the other.
Tri-amping my system with an amp for tweeters, amp for door speakers and an amp for subs, using a pre-out from the 4 channel to feed a 2 channel amp.
OR
Wiring the tweeters in parallel with the front door speakers by splicing and soldering in the tweeters before the door speakers, creating a 2 ohm load.
My processor can EQ front speakers to account for the extra higher frequencies. The tweeters also have outboard crossovers with DB adjustment from 0 db to -6 db.
The only thing I'm worried about with doing this is the wattage being delivered to the door speakers as the amp is now able to produce 90 watts at 2 ohms, as I'll be running a 2 ohm load in parallel, but the door speakers can only take 50w each, tweeters can take full power from my amp. Its nearly impossible for me to wire the tweeters in with the door speakers in series, parallel is my only option. Would this be a good idea as opposed to tri-amping? Is there any better ideas as of what I could do to get my dash tweeters amped and timed perfectly with my doors?
To explain what Sreten has said a little further, the bass region is where the most power is used and that's where you have to be careful not to let the Ω's get too low. Up in the tweeter range there is a lot less power, so a lot less heat. While you may be getting the 2Ω load, it's only in the tweeter range, so its not likely to overheat your amp.
What about the door speakers? When I originally started my audio upgrade a year ago, I bought speakers that are 5-50 w RMS, so that they'd still sound good powered by my stock head unit. I've since made tons of upgrades since that decision, I didn't buy speakers anticipating a 4 channel amp, and now I do notice if the volume is too loud, I get a wonderful voice coil melting smell from the doors, and the amp gain is only at 1/4. Would the door speakers be safe assuming I turn up the gain more once I wire the tweeters in too? Doing purely theoretical math, 2 4 ohm speakers in parallel present a 2 ohm load, allowing the amp to power them with 90 watts, meaning 45 watts per speaker. Does this sound right? Will the amp only deliver the full 90 watts if I max out the volume and gain with an unclipped signal?
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You're getting ahead of yourself.
1. Your amp will still see a 4Ω load with the coax's and tweeters in parallel.
2. No the power is not divided into 45 watts each. The coax's will see the full power, the tweeters will see very little, maybe 5 or 10 watts.
3. It's up to you to make sure you don't blow the speakers. Use common sense.
1. Your amp will still see a 4Ω load with the coax's and tweeters in parallel.
2. No the power is not divided into 45 watts each. The coax's will see the full power, the tweeters will see very little, maybe 5 or 10 watts.
3. It's up to you to make sure you don't blow the speakers. Use common sense.
Hi MarcoFisico, are you of italian origin? Let me try to help you in this speakers-amp issue...
1) you've got 2 pair 50W COAXIALS .(6.5"?)...
2) you power them up with a respectable 4ch (sure this one has a HighPass filter, have you set this HP filter?)
3) you also have a pair of Alpine -dome, sure- tweeters somewhere in the dash (i.ask a pardon i do not know how is your car...) along with their passive crossovers, and powered by your stock radio.
4) you even have a solid subwoofer section you state not involved in the problem....
5) you drive the 4 channel signal with an AudioControl processor hooked up with your factory radio in order to time-aligne coaxials with tweeters...
6) you are fearing to connect adding tweeters to coaxials as for a lower impedance your amp would see...(2ohms...)
Now, having you 2 pair coaxials those ones must have each tweeter with at least a filter capacitor in series -unless tweeters are piezo ones!-, meaning this does a frequency cut HP at a certain frequency, let's assume this cap is a 4,7uF and this is filtering the coaxial tweeter at about 6kHz with a roll-off 6db/octave...
This meanin' if you connect the Alpine tweeters pair in parallel to coaxials (of course to only one pair coaxials, and of course the front doors ones..) and coaxials have a BIWIRING terminal so you can parallel to their tweeters after buiilt in capacitor, THIS WAY 2 channels of your amp will see a half nominal impedance (2ohm) in the frequency range 6kHz to 20kHz or the range covered by your tweeters (both coaxials and Alpine).
Of course the midwoofer cones (5.25" or 6.5" or ...) will still give its own impedance to the amp 4 channels...And if you felt voice coil melt-down smell with that low gain level of amp I would suggest you to check speakers wires and installation... as this doesn't sound normal to me... and of course is imperative you to set the HP xover in the amp at about 100Hz or so in order to controll excursions of your coaxials cones.
If differently you will use the Alpine passive xovers you must eliminate the built-in cap in coaxials otherway the parallel filters would interact between themselves changing xover frequency... Also, to predict the resulting frequency cut should be known every part in the xovers and real value of coaxial cap...
That's why I warmly suggest you to tri-amp these speakers, if the stock radio is not satisfying you, and look for a small 2ch amp to add to your system to power up Alpine tweeters and you'll be done at the best...
1) you've got 2 pair 50W COAXIALS .(6.5"?)...
2) you power them up with a respectable 4ch (sure this one has a HighPass filter, have you set this HP filter?)
3) you also have a pair of Alpine -dome, sure- tweeters somewhere in the dash (i.ask a pardon i do not know how is your car...) along with their passive crossovers, and powered by your stock radio.
4) you even have a solid subwoofer section you state not involved in the problem....
5) you drive the 4 channel signal with an AudioControl processor hooked up with your factory radio in order to time-aligne coaxials with tweeters...
6) you are fearing to connect adding tweeters to coaxials as for a lower impedance your amp would see...(2ohms...)
Now, having you 2 pair coaxials those ones must have each tweeter with at least a filter capacitor in series -unless tweeters are piezo ones!-, meaning this does a frequency cut HP at a certain frequency, let's assume this cap is a 4,7uF and this is filtering the coaxial tweeter at about 6kHz with a roll-off 6db/octave...
This meanin' if you connect the Alpine tweeters pair in parallel to coaxials (of course to only one pair coaxials, and of course the front doors ones..) and coaxials have a BIWIRING terminal so you can parallel to their tweeters after buiilt in capacitor, THIS WAY 2 channels of your amp will see a half nominal impedance (2ohm) in the frequency range 6kHz to 20kHz or the range covered by your tweeters (both coaxials and Alpine).
Of course the midwoofer cones (5.25" or 6.5" or ...) will still give its own impedance to the amp 4 channels...And if you felt voice coil melt-down smell with that low gain level of amp I would suggest you to check speakers wires and installation... as this doesn't sound normal to me... and of course is imperative you to set the HP xover in the amp at about 100Hz or so in order to controll excursions of your coaxials cones.
If differently you will use the Alpine passive xovers you must eliminate the built-in cap in coaxials otherway the parallel filters would interact between themselves changing xover frequency... Also, to predict the resulting frequency cut should be known every part in the xovers and real value of coaxial cap...
That's why I warmly suggest you to tri-amp these speakers, if the stock radio is not satisfying you, and look for a small 2ch amp to add to your system to power up Alpine tweeters and you'll be done at the best...
Sorry about the long wait before my reply, I hadn't finished the splicing till earlier today.
Yes I am of Italian origin, how did you guess?
So, I have spliced the tweeters into the existing speaker wire which I ran to the door speakers. The wire now splits in 2, with tweeters and their crossovers are wired first, unaffected by the crossovers on the coaxials, and the speaker wire still going to the coaxials in the doors. Initially it sounded far too loud, luckily the tweeters have little jumpers in the crossovers so that I can adjust their level anywhere between 0db and -6db. -4db sounded right. Measuring the DC resistance over at the amp side read 3.34 ohms.
However now I have a bit of an issue with the volume levels being out of balance as it goes up. My volume adjustment goes from 0 - 45, I have the gains set on my amp so I get clipping at about 35.
If the volume is between 5-10, the tweeters overpower the other speakers. From 10 - 23 the tweeters are at the proper volume level for the rest of the system. and from 23 up the tweeters seem to be quieter than the rest of the system, giving a weird echo since the door speakers are louder than the dash. I can't adjust gains because that will affect the door speakers as well, and my Equalizer is set perfectly for my door speakers; with the tweeters added in, its much harder to achieve that right EQ tuning since the EQ tuning is 90% dependent on speaker characteristics and 10% on personal taste.
For now it is a definite improvement in sound quality, since the tweeters are now getting a processed and amped signal. Lots to consider for the future though.
For now, 2 channel amps seem a bit too expensive for simply amping tweeters. Especially since ill have to swap out my distribution block for a 3 way instead of a 2 way and run new wire to the front, plus use the pre-outs on my four channel to feed the 2 way amp. Luckily I ran a big 0/1 gauge wire from my battery so it can handle lots of power.
Realistically, for a similar price as a 4 channel, 2 channel and mono amp, I could sell them and consolidate into a multi channel amp like a 6 or 8 channel and eliminate all my multi amp woes. I had no idea an 8 channel amp existed until I did a quick google search. A JL XD800/8v2 offers all the channels I could ask for and is only $700, cheaper than $300 + $300 + $200 for each individual amp.
Yes I am of Italian origin, how did you guess?
So, I have spliced the tweeters into the existing speaker wire which I ran to the door speakers. The wire now splits in 2, with tweeters and their crossovers are wired first, unaffected by the crossovers on the coaxials, and the speaker wire still going to the coaxials in the doors. Initially it sounded far too loud, luckily the tweeters have little jumpers in the crossovers so that I can adjust their level anywhere between 0db and -6db. -4db sounded right. Measuring the DC resistance over at the amp side read 3.34 ohms.
However now I have a bit of an issue with the volume levels being out of balance as it goes up. My volume adjustment goes from 0 - 45, I have the gains set on my amp so I get clipping at about 35.
If the volume is between 5-10, the tweeters overpower the other speakers. From 10 - 23 the tweeters are at the proper volume level for the rest of the system. and from 23 up the tweeters seem to be quieter than the rest of the system, giving a weird echo since the door speakers are louder than the dash. I can't adjust gains because that will affect the door speakers as well, and my Equalizer is set perfectly for my door speakers; with the tweeters added in, its much harder to achieve that right EQ tuning since the EQ tuning is 90% dependent on speaker characteristics and 10% on personal taste.
For now it is a definite improvement in sound quality, since the tweeters are now getting a processed and amped signal. Lots to consider for the future though.
For now, 2 channel amps seem a bit too expensive for simply amping tweeters. Especially since ill have to swap out my distribution block for a 3 way instead of a 2 way and run new wire to the front, plus use the pre-outs on my four channel to feed the 2 way amp. Luckily I ran a big 0/1 gauge wire from my battery so it can handle lots of power.
Realistically, for a similar price as a 4 channel, 2 channel and mono amp, I could sell them and consolidate into a multi channel amp like a 6 or 8 channel and eliminate all my multi amp woes. I had no idea an 8 channel amp existed until I did a quick google search. A JL XD800/8v2 offers all the channels I could ask for and is only $700, cheaper than $300 + $300 + $200 for each individual amp.
hi Marco, your name spell's italian that's why i did guess... good, personal taste is the tongue of the issue... you already got an improvement by feeding added tweeters to amp channels, i guess cancellation and overlapping phenomenons are arising in your system when amp load vs. xovers' would change phase module of speaker system all along with frequencies variations of music program... (i'm sorry i do not find better way to explain what i mean in english, that's first time for me to speak/write of those acoustical issues in english).
You might go for the 8ch amp, but in your sub sections you will lack something much probably...do you agree?
You might go for a 6 ch and keep the one you have for sub...Or better why do not substitute the front coaxials with a good pair of MidWoofers only and leave the Alpine tweeters as the true mid-highs of the system.. I'm sure you will have much less trouble to fine tuning gain levels and passive attenuations...don't you agree?
You might go for the 8ch amp, but in your sub sections you will lack something much probably...do you agree?
You might go for a 6 ch and keep the one you have for sub...Or better why do not substitute the front coaxials with a good pair of MidWoofers only and leave the Alpine tweeters as the true mid-highs of the system.. I'm sure you will have much less trouble to fine tuning gain levels and passive attenuations...don't you agree?
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