Recently i bought a Pioneer TS-W310S4 which has 95db 1w/m. I think pioneer did not cheat.
I was considering buying infinity Reference 5032cf or 5002ix or 6032.
They claim 92db sensitivity 2.83v/m. 2.83volts at 2 ohms means 4watts and not 1 watt/m (as power=voltage*voltage/impedence)
92db @ 4watts/m
89db @ 2 watts/m
86db @ 1 watts/m <--- True sensitivity
Did Infinity car audio lie about their sensitivity by 6 dbs ?
I was considering buying infinity Reference 5032cf or 5002ix or 6032.
They claim 92db sensitivity 2.83v/m. 2.83volts at 2 ohms means 4watts and not 1 watt/m (as power=voltage*voltage/impedence)
92db @ 4watts/m
89db @ 2 watts/m
86db @ 1 watts/m <--- True sensitivity
Did Infinity car audio lie about their sensitivity by 6 dbs ?
If they give the input voltage, they aren't trying to mislead except those who are too lazy to read all of the information provided.
These numbers shouldn't be your only reason to buy them. You can make speakers that are more efficient but there are tradeoffs. Many times, a speaker will appear (from the specs) to be more efficient but the frequency response isn't as good and the lower frequency output suffers. It's also possible to make speakers more efficient but with less power handling. To get greater power handling and more efficiency often requires that the speaker is made of better materials which makes them more expensive.
The 95dB spec on the pioneer is also suspicious. It's almost certainly not 95dB efficient from 20-250Hz. If so, in what enclosure? In what environment?
Speakers and audio are very complex. You have to know MUCH more than what a few specs will tell you to know how they will perform. Even if you punch in all of the T/S parameters, they will not tell you how the speaker will sound. To know how a speaker will perform, you have to listen to it in it's intended environment with the other equipment that it will be used with. Even then, you'll get as many opinions on how it performs as the number of people that listen to it.
These numbers shouldn't be your only reason to buy them. You can make speakers that are more efficient but there are tradeoffs. Many times, a speaker will appear (from the specs) to be more efficient but the frequency response isn't as good and the lower frequency output suffers. It's also possible to make speakers more efficient but with less power handling. To get greater power handling and more efficiency often requires that the speaker is made of better materials which makes them more expensive.
The 95dB spec on the pioneer is also suspicious. It's almost certainly not 95dB efficient from 20-250Hz. If so, in what enclosure? In what environment?
Speakers and audio are very complex. You have to know MUCH more than what a few specs will tell you to know how they will perform. Even if you punch in all of the T/S parameters, they will not tell you how the speaker will sound. To know how a speaker will perform, you have to listen to it in it's intended environment with the other equipment that it will be used with. Even then, you'll get as many opinions on how it performs as the number of people that listen to it.
Comparing Pioneer with JBL p1222
Thank you Perry,
I am comparing this Pioneer to this JBL P1222
It seems the 5db range for JBL is 35hz-100hz only
It seems the 5db range for Pioneer is 40-220hz
I think the wide range is another reason I would prefer pioneer
Pioneer's chart is max at 0db, i think 0db could be 95 sensitivity they claim.
This woofer seems to have very very good sensitivity rating. Will talk more of pioneer when i hear it.
JBL on the other hand
i see 90db @ 2.83v 2ohm * 2 in parallel= 1 ohm
2.83v in 1 ohm = 8watts
so actual 1watt/meter sensitivity is 90-9=81db
yet they claim 97 (2.83v /meter)in specs
Why dont they number just dont add up for JBL
Where did the missing 16 db go
JBL
JBL datasheet- http://www.jbl.com/resources/Brands.../en-US/BoxesandParameters/P1222rev3_27_06.pdf
Pioneer
Thank you Perry,
I am comparing this Pioneer to this JBL P1222
It seems the 5db range for JBL is 35hz-100hz only
It seems the 5db range for Pioneer is 40-220hz
I think the wide range is another reason I would prefer pioneer
Pioneer's chart is max at 0db, i think 0db could be 95 sensitivity they claim.
This woofer seems to have very very good sensitivity rating. Will talk more of pioneer when i hear it.
JBL on the other hand
i see 90db @ 2.83v 2ohm * 2 in parallel= 1 ohm
2.83v in 1 ohm = 8watts
so actual 1watt/meter sensitivity is 90-9=81db
yet they claim 97 (2.83v /meter)in specs
Why dont they number just dont add up for JBL
Where did the missing 16 db go
JBL
JBL datasheet- http://www.jbl.com/resources/Brands.../en-US/BoxesandParameters/P1222rev3_27_06.pdf
Pioneer
They are EVIL, Pioneer TS-W310S4
Has a sensitivity of 95db/watt ........... ..Inside car
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/car-audio/225701-disappointed-pioneer-ts-w310s4.html#post3286192
Talk about specs creatively..lol
I returned it without even trying it and even thought about filing a complain against FTC but i realized it would be useless. wasted $40 on return.
I returned it and got JL audio W3v3-4, i get getting 290rms and now wishing i had got the 2 ohm version so i could have 500rms.
1st sub so i dont have a reference but it sounds really nice.
Or get a *real* woofer instead and blow the car roof with 100W
"Real" meaning a PA woofer: Eminence Gamma or Delta/PA type JBL/RCF/Beyma/EV/Peavey Black Widow .
Eminence Gamma or Delta look like paper cones
Black Widow Speaker is 8ohm which may work fine if they are efficient. they claim 97.5 dB / 1 W 1 m , at this spec i can even run them on 50watt n be fine
Are Kevlar impregnated cellulose cones good? can they survive -10 to 110 degrees ?
Will look into JBL/RCF/Beyma/EV. You gave me lots of new options.
Doono if home audio PA subs are a good idea in cars or not ? But i hear people use dayton ho sub is car all the time.
Update: Most of the these 12inches dont seem to have a good low freq response and higher F air resonance.
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Hi,
No the senstivity is correct as that is the level for a voltage.
Sensitivity is what you use to match the level of drivers.
Your confusing it with nominal efficiency which is per watt,
and for a 2 ohm driver they will differ by as you say 6dB.
rgds, sreten.
Do you want loud or efficient? PA woofers generally do not have a lot of Xmax, meaning that while they are efficient, their maxspl will be lower than the real low efficiency subwoofer drivers in the lowest octaves.
What about Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12". Not efficent, but low distorion and can go very loud. Or, if you want a PA woofer, look at Eminence's LAB 12C. It's a bit more efficent than the Dayton, and looks vey well made.
Ow,and powerhandling is not that important in the lower octaves, excursion is the limiting factor in most cases.
What about Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12". Not efficent, but low distorion and can go very loud. Or, if you want a PA woofer, look at Eminence's LAB 12C. It's a bit more efficent than the Dayton, and looks vey well made.
Ow,and powerhandling is not that important in the lower octaves, excursion is the limiting factor in most cases.
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HF's need bigger enclosure but they sure sound deep. I hear about the HF's issue http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/228963-what-oil-can-popping-sub.html
LAB 12C looks good but JL is better in winisd, JL is more deep and more sensitive
Eminence Gamma or Delta dont even come close to my JLw3v3 in winisd simulations. Their Fs is too high. Sealed Jlw3v3 gives as good SPL response as ported Delta's or Gamma's. They look more like PA woofer and not subwoofersOr get a *real* woofer instead and blow the car roof with 100W
"Real" meaning a PA woofer: Eminence Gamma or Delta/PA type JBL/RCF/Beyma/EV/Peavey Black Widow .
Alpine R's sure look very nice too. They offer less sensitivity than JL's but need smaller enclosure. Just as the Iron law says. Alpine R's 12inch can run is as small as 20 litres only. Their enclosure size for ported is also very small. But i wanna stay with sealed. I will stick with my JLW3v3 for now.
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