"Best" sub from a build quality stand point?

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I've not been into car audio before now, so I need some help. I am looking for a 12" car subwoofer. Irrespective everything else, which companies manufacture the best car subs, build quality wise? What constitutes a good car sub?

I am also in need of recommendations for good books for beginners in car audio. Preferably covering most aspects about the subject. If need be, specialised books can be obtained at a later date.
 
Here is a list from another site of subs people consider high quality:

TC Sounds TC9/Soundsplinter RL-p SQL/SPL subs.
Image Dynamics IDQ
Image Dynamics ID
Image Dynamics IDMAX
Peerless XLS and XXLS
Diamond D6
Arc Audio D series
Arc Flatline
Dayton Audio Titanic
Adire Audio
RE Audio
Soundstream Exact's
Digital Designs
Elemental Designs
Treo
Illusion Audio
Focal K2 series and Be series

I would tend to agree, though I would also temper that with your use. If you don't need the expanded capabilities of the most expensive sub then the money would be best spent elsewhere to further your system. And that list is limited, lots of companies make some good stuff but people tend towards the specialized companies many of the above are. A good sub can be many things; maybe a flatter response curve, holds up to more abuse, works in a smaller box, or has the output you need in your install. That last one is likely most important because the install matters more than the sub IMHO. I have used <$20 subs with great results in a daily driver.
 
I should perhaps have given more info in my previous post.

- Budget is secondary, to a degree.
- Soundquality and good build is what I am after, not SPL
- My application is tapped horns

It has to be sturdy, it will experience some harsh times, due to the way the tapped horns work.

There are so many brands out there, I just wanted some help stearing away from the bad ones. I've seen a few new brands in jol50s list. My own list so far contains these brands:

Alpine
Atomic Speakers
Audiobahn
Audiopulse
Audio Top
Cadence
Cerwin Vega
Clif Designs
Digital Designs
DLS
Dynaudio
Eclipse
Elemental Design Audio
Elevation Audio
Emphaser
Fi Car Audio
Ground Zero
JBL
JL Audio
Kicker
Kole Audio
MA Audio
Magnat
MB Quart
MTX
Orion
Power Acoustik
RE Audio
RD Audio
Soundstream
SPL Dynamics

I have not been able to check out all of their web sites as yet, but I am getting there. Any input on these brands?

What about book tips?
 
A tapped horn is a different beast compared to regular basshorns. The inventor has used both PA driver and car sub, that is at least what many beleive. Most people have used PA drivers so far, but there are also successful applications using car subs. One that at least simulates well is MTX Thunder 95??-04. As most folks has used PA drivers, I want to go the car sub way. That is why there are only car sub manufacturers in my list.

Soundsplinter has a promising 15", but it is too large for me, need to be 220 cm tall. I will start with a couple of 12".
 
I like MTX, I have a 4500 10 that works great in a sealed for what it is. Also check DD on your list, since they are so good in spl I am sure they are durable.

Does this horn have an issue with xmax? Most horns I have seen do not need big xmax thus the use of pro style drivers. DD is said to have less xmax than others yet they outperform. Dayton (parts express) also has some interesting drivers though most are not as hardcore as a 9500mtx.
 
Speaking of build quality, I notice a lot of round subwoofers never have the cone or magnet perfectly centered. Some even get coil rub if you push on the cone unevenly. Another common problem is the dustcap getting loose and even coming off or the lead wires either breaking or slapping the cone from high excursion :rolleyes:. I have a spare MTX Thunder 8000 I don't use, I had to reglue the dustcap. :(

:cool:
I got a Sony XS-L120P5W subwoofer, and IMO one of the best quality built car subs, and not all that pricey either at just under $70. It has the lead wires in the top spider (2 spiders), not in the cone. Also it's a 5-sided pentagon-shaped cone woofer with no dustcap, perfectly centered, and a ribbed-rubber surround. And the glue holds well. The never version is the same, but is black.

The best part, is the incredible SOLID BASS down to 20hz, plays clear with no distortion, and NEVER bottomed out!

Sony_Xplod_1200_Watt_Max_12_Subwoofer_XS_L120P5W_Car_Speaker-resized200.jpg


I've blown up one of these speakers and the only thing wrong is the voice coil burned up. The speaker construction itself is ROCK SOLID, so even though I blew up the speaker, I want another one. It played loud and clear until the point it blew with a flash of light! Highly impressive, being most speakers make a bunch of nasty noise when overdriven, this one did not. :bigeyes:
 
I've seen several of those sony woofers burn. Seems like they are very sensitive to any amount over the rms wattage. I've also seen a few have the voice coil and cone seperate from the spider with some abuse. They do seem solid when new, but I'd be skeptical about buying one for long term. The reason I suggested the pioneer premiers is because I'd noticed the accurate build quality. Everything seemed perfectly centered, cone, surround and magnet, etc. That's something that I never noticed on other drivers like sony, fosgate/punch, kicker, etc. The kenwoods also seemed to be built very solidly. Of course every day these companies have the advantage of better technology yielding better build quality. The more difficult thing to find now is best sound quality.
 
Does this horn have an issue with xmax?

Not that I know of, but I always want to on the safe side, so an Xmax a bit over the projected need is nice. I have also decided to go for a well ventilated VC of at least 3" and a stiff cone, a weak cone easily wrinkles when driven hard.

Quite a few of the manufactureres in my list will end up on the NO NO list when I am done selecting drivers. Many have few, if any useful driver parameters available on the web pages, and seem reluctant to answer requests for parameters. I don't care to buy their products, why should I?
 
I considered purchasing one of those Pioneer Premier subs before I got my Sony Xplod P5, the only thing that changed my mind was the dustcap. , but

I'll admit, I'm a bit biased towards woofers with no dustcaps and spider-woven tinsel leads due to bad past experiences with other speakers, but you mention that the Pioneers are solid, so I assume you never had a problem with the dustcap. Also they do look nice.

Also, you mention Kenwood. It's been a while that I've looked at a few, but I do remember them having no dustcap as well.

What kind of Voice Coil is in the Pioneers? The Sony has a 2 inch VC IMO is a bit small. I never had problems with the woofer seperating at the spider, but I was disappointed how the VC melted so badly, but I think that I miscalculated the RMS on my DIY amp which is why it blew.
 
Anyone have experience with the Digital Designs subs? I've seen a lot of them on Youtube being abused, and even one was plugged into 120V mains several times and would not die! :hot:

Another one of interest is the Alpine Type-X subs, the rubber-roll surround looks really nice, and they have no dustcap too.

IMO a quality sub should hold together well, but also play strong around 20hz.
 
this:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...o/Subwoofers/Champion-Pro/TS-W3001D2|D4?tab=B

or if you have room:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Subwoofers/SPL/TS-W5102SPL?tab=B

and the cool thing is the pioneer brand woofers are never as ridiculously priced as they are on their site

for example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2008-Pionee...ryZ18803QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


And maybe its not related, but the only time I've ever had chicks want to dance to the stereo system in car (several times :) ) was when I had my two pioneer premier subs running on a ppi art600. I've had orion, kicker, sony, kenwood, even a set of bumper subs back in the 80's. If I wasn't worried about weight and wasn't already planning on building custom enclosures for shallow 8's in my interior, I'd definately be rocking a pair of the premiers.
 
EWorkshop1708 said:
Anyone have experience with the Digital Designs subs? I've seen a lot of them on Youtube being abused, and even one was plugged into 120V mains several times and would not die! :hot:

Another one of interest is the Alpine Type-X subs, the rubber-roll surround looks really nice, and they have no dustcap too.

IMO a quality sub should hold together well, but also play strong around 20hz.


I'd go with DD. can't go wrong with them. what you get with your money is pure performance. no additional cost for marketing and chrome flames :dead:
 
i love my TC-3000 15" hits every note with authority, it stays under control at high power and low bass, the sound is as clean as the recorded material. at least to my ears. lol

a great sub will sound like @ss in an improperly designed and poorly built enclosure.

look at the specs T/s parameters of the sub before you buy it, and make sure you have enough space in the trunk or where ever the enclosure system is going, for the properly sized and tuned enclosure in the vehicle its going for that sub.

you don't want to buy a sub that needs 4cuft enclosure and you can only fit 2cubes.
i have seen it happen often.

good luck.
 
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