Oh, 2 TTS8000 would be too much for me...it is a Denon DP80 and the Sony, in the same plinth made especially by a Japanese company for the big direct drives of that era. So it would be a comparison between those 2 , which should be interesting.
The question is for me: did Sony have poor quality management, or was it a problem with all 8000s, and only a few owners became aware of it.
I asked a friend, who also owns one , if he is able to rock the spindle sideways, and he confirmed that. But he never realized before.
For me the grease is a quick fix, and is working to my satisfaction so far.
Most probably a tightly toleranced bearing would be preferable, but I am so happy that it runs smoothly, that I would hesitate to rip it apart again.
The question is for me: did Sony have poor quality management, or was it a problem with all 8000s, and only a few owners became aware of it.
I asked a friend, who also owns one , if he is able to rock the spindle sideways, and he confirmed that. But he never realized before.
For me the grease is a quick fix, and is working to my satisfaction so far.
Most probably a tightly toleranced bearing would be preferable, but I am so happy that it runs smoothly, that I would hesitate to rip it apart again.
The most noticeable evidence that I am aware of that will show an effect from the Sideways Movement that can be detected on the Spindle is when a Stand Alone Speed Strobe is used.
The Stand Alone Strobe can show a fluctuation in speed, even though the Built in Speed control indicator is showing all is remaining constant.
The Speed Fluctuations will most likely be an indicator of a eccentric rotation.
I have access to respected Tonearms and a Bespoke Built Cartridge, the TTS 8000 in this condition, is not seen by myself, as worth the time to set the TT Up to use the available ancillaries.
Other owned TT's are better engineered to receive the ancillaries.
It should not be to long before my TTS 8000 can be of a similar Bearing Quality of the other owned TT's.
Only then will the proper investigation of the TT's full potential be sought out.
The Stand Alone Strobe can show a fluctuation in speed, even though the Built in Speed control indicator is showing all is remaining constant.
The Speed Fluctuations will most likely be an indicator of a eccentric rotation.
I have access to respected Tonearms and a Bespoke Built Cartridge, the TTS 8000 in this condition, is not seen by myself, as worth the time to set the TT Up to use the available ancillaries.
Other owned TT's are better engineered to receive the ancillaries.
It should not be to long before my TTS 8000 can be of a similar Bearing Quality of the other owned TT's.
Only then will the proper investigation of the TT's full potential be sought out.
Who's inquiry am I addressing?, JP the Unsubscribed?, or JP the Subscribed?
The phrase used in the post being questioned that referrences 'most likely' is of importance.
As the information being processed within this thread, is being drawn from 'not only my own personal experience' of being 'hands on' with two owned TTS 8000's.
Information is also being made available by others, and the utmost importance to this thread is their reports, as it will help identify is experiences are isolated or wider spread.
The First Line of my Second Post make my position well known.
I like to use a well produced product and to achieve this I choose to rely on the Skill Sets of others who's are much more adept than myself, and their experiences enable them to carry out very worthwhile Investigations and Troubleshooting Operations.
The Solutions that the individuals I share time with are recognised and their support is sought by many, especially those who need help with a variety of unique issues on a Analogue System Chain, that ranges from a Stylus and on from there, Down Stream to the Phonostage.
I have been given a description on a Speed Fluctuation that has been witnessed, by a individual I am entrusting, and for me there is no more interrogation on the matter.
A Stand Alone Strobe will be used to record the Defects with the Rotation, as well as Record the Final Work in operation, and when I am informed the ideal reading is being produced, in my mind the concerns for the rotations accuracy are over.
The phrase used in the post being questioned that referrences 'most likely' is of importance.
As the information being processed within this thread, is being drawn from 'not only my own personal experience' of being 'hands on' with two owned TTS 8000's.
Information is also being made available by others, and the utmost importance to this thread is their reports, as it will help identify is experiences are isolated or wider spread.
The First Line of my Second Post make my position well known.
I like to use a well produced product and to achieve this I choose to rely on the Skill Sets of others who's are much more adept than myself, and their experiences enable them to carry out very worthwhile Investigations and Troubleshooting Operations.
The Solutions that the individuals I share time with are recognised and their support is sought by many, especially those who need help with a variety of unique issues on a Analogue System Chain, that ranges from a Stylus and on from there, Down Stream to the Phonostage.
I have been given a description on a Speed Fluctuation that has been witnessed, by a individual I am entrusting, and for me there is no more interrogation on the matter.
A Stand Alone Strobe will be used to record the Defects with the Rotation, as well as Record the Final Work in operation, and when I am informed the ideal reading is being produced, in my mind the concerns for the rotations accuracy are over.
If the platter strobe isn't showing a fluctuation that an external strobe is, the only likely reason is that the strobe frequency is changing in concert with the platter fluctuation. The strobe frequency and the signal the motor is phase locked to (when locked) is derived from the same source. That clock drifting like that, while possible, is very unlikely.
On the other hand, I've never seen an external strobe that was printed concentric enough that it didn't appear to shift back and forth a bit, if even a bit.
It's very difficult to see speed fluctuations under a couple tenths of a percent with a strobe at low frequency, and more difficult as the frequency increases. It's far too blunt an instrument for anything other than confirming the grossest of speed errors on a 'quartz locked' DD.
On the other hand, I've never seen an external strobe that was printed concentric enough that it didn't appear to shift back and forth a bit, if even a bit.
It's very difficult to see speed fluctuations under a couple tenths of a percent with a strobe at low frequency, and more difficult as the frequency increases. It's far too blunt an instrument for anything other than confirming the grossest of speed errors on a 'quartz locked' DD.
As referred to by another contributor to this Thread, there is a TTS 8000 seen for
£3000, I assume this is a price for a Package, that is inclusive of a Plinth Tonearm and Cartridge.
Not too long ago, a TTS 8000 Package inclusive with a Plinth > Tonearm > Cartridge has been seen for sale by myself for more than double the £3000 recently reported on.
A search will show the Package including the TTS 8000 can be discovered for having been offered for sale for slightly less than 10 000 euro's.
A hunt for a TTS 8000 only, without any ancillaries, as a item that will most likely be a 'import purchase' can be found for Close to £1000 and with the Shipping and Duties the cost will increase, I would class a purchase such as this as a Punt.
There are other TTS 8000 models that can be found a little cheaper, but these will be a Punt as a purchase and can be quite a challenge if the TT has operational faults,
as an extra support and costs might need be found to work on any faults, if repairable.
Either of the above as a purchased item, can have the Bearing and Platter issues as being reported on in this thread as well as any other faults needing attention.
I myself have purchased Two TTS 8000's as Punts, and know today there were much better options, if the issues being discussed on here are wished to be avoided.
Another TTS 8000 Puchased by myself Prior to the above two purchases,
but bought in identical circumstances was not considered a Punt, for the reason that in the sales advert, it appeared New and Boxed in all Original Packaging.
Fortunately that is how the TT arrived.
Caveat Emptor is king in these purchase scenarios.
The New Appearing and Original Packaged TTS 8000, was the first TTS 8000 that I know of, that had a Dryness within a Bearing Housing made known publically.
The New Owner of the TT, is a time served Vintage TT Overhauler and Plinth Builder.
They were not withheld in their inspections and reports when the questions started to be asked about the TTS 8000 on another forum.
The report from the New Owner on their TTS 8000 stated that it does 'not' have the Platter Spindle Sideways movement.
It 'did' have a report of a Dry Bearing Housing.
The condition where a Platter Rocking Movement can be created is not known of on this TT, as this report on the Platter Movement is a very recent discovery that has become a publically referred to condition.
My thoughts and curiosity, are off such, that if there are reports being made known from a selection of different individuals who are based in Different Countries, who are contributors to other forums with their findings on the TTS 8000.
Along with members of this forum who are very recently making contributions and making their experiences with the TTS 8000 known.
How many other TTS 8000's are out there, that are with a Bearing Housing that will be in need of a lubrication ?
Even more unwanted, how many have a Platter Spindle with a Sideways movement that can create a tapping noise when in contact with the Bushes contained in the Bearing Housing ?
How many TTS 8000's are with a Platter, that when seated on a Spindle will create a rocking motion with a minimum finger pressure applied ?.
How many TTS 8000's are treated with a method of being given an application of Oil as the fix to a Bearing Housing / Spindle Interface ececessive movement ?
Recent reports from another Member and myself has made it known that the experience of when a Oil is added to the Bearing Housing, as a method to fix a issue with a Bearing Interface within the Housing, has not shown to be long term effective.
Especially in a situation where the Bush / Spindle Interface has been able to move excessively.
The Interface has not been able to hold the Oil for a Long Period and the Oil has escaped from the Interface, leaving the unwanted movement to develop once more.
Additionally to my own experience, there is a report informing that the Bearing Housing has not been able to contain for the long term any Oil that has been added, and a grease was used a alternative lubrication.
How many TTS 8000's that are being Sold as part of a Package for the prices referred to above are free from the conditions being reported on anddiscussed within this Thread?
For myself ' I like the TTS 8000' not as a TT to use with its issues that are becoming more widespread known.
I like for the Challenges it can create, the opportunities it can produce to encourage a stimulation to better the Mechanical Interfaces and give it a New Set of Wheels.
For me and some others, It has been a great tool to be placed at a centre of discussions, Very skilled individuals have embraced the challenges it has presented.
Skeptics who fought with the notion, that there are inherant problems that are to the TT's detriment are now embracing the methods produced by the skilled, to overcome the problems.
In my mind the TTS 8000 has a opportunity to be a great TT, especially if the reported on issues are worked on and removed.
As a projection for the outcome, and drawing on the most recent reports of a Modified TTS 8000.
There seems to be absolutely no reason why the TT can not at least become a very interesting TT, a TT that I believe will produce performance that can go 'Toe to Toe' as a match to other Brands/Competitors born from this bygone ara.
£3000, I assume this is a price for a Package, that is inclusive of a Plinth Tonearm and Cartridge.
Not too long ago, a TTS 8000 Package inclusive with a Plinth > Tonearm > Cartridge has been seen for sale by myself for more than double the £3000 recently reported on.
A search will show the Package including the TTS 8000 can be discovered for having been offered for sale for slightly less than 10 000 euro's.
A hunt for a TTS 8000 only, without any ancillaries, as a item that will most likely be a 'import purchase' can be found for Close to £1000 and with the Shipping and Duties the cost will increase, I would class a purchase such as this as a Punt.
There are other TTS 8000 models that can be found a little cheaper, but these will be a Punt as a purchase and can be quite a challenge if the TT has operational faults,
as an extra support and costs might need be found to work on any faults, if repairable.
Either of the above as a purchased item, can have the Bearing and Platter issues as being reported on in this thread as well as any other faults needing attention.
I myself have purchased Two TTS 8000's as Punts, and know today there were much better options, if the issues being discussed on here are wished to be avoided.
Another TTS 8000 Puchased by myself Prior to the above two purchases,
but bought in identical circumstances was not considered a Punt, for the reason that in the sales advert, it appeared New and Boxed in all Original Packaging.
Fortunately that is how the TT arrived.
Caveat Emptor is king in these purchase scenarios.
The New Appearing and Original Packaged TTS 8000, was the first TTS 8000 that I know of, that had a Dryness within a Bearing Housing made known publically.
The New Owner of the TT, is a time served Vintage TT Overhauler and Plinth Builder.
They were not withheld in their inspections and reports when the questions started to be asked about the TTS 8000 on another forum.
The report from the New Owner on their TTS 8000 stated that it does 'not' have the Platter Spindle Sideways movement.
It 'did' have a report of a Dry Bearing Housing.
The condition where a Platter Rocking Movement can be created is not known of on this TT, as this report on the Platter Movement is a very recent discovery that has become a publically referred to condition.
My thoughts and curiosity, are off such, that if there are reports being made known from a selection of different individuals who are based in Different Countries, who are contributors to other forums with their findings on the TTS 8000.
Along with members of this forum who are very recently making contributions and making their experiences with the TTS 8000 known.
How many other TTS 8000's are out there, that are with a Bearing Housing that will be in need of a lubrication ?
Even more unwanted, how many have a Platter Spindle with a Sideways movement that can create a tapping noise when in contact with the Bushes contained in the Bearing Housing ?
How many TTS 8000's are with a Platter, that when seated on a Spindle will create a rocking motion with a minimum finger pressure applied ?.
How many TTS 8000's are treated with a method of being given an application of Oil as the fix to a Bearing Housing / Spindle Interface ececessive movement ?
Recent reports from another Member and myself has made it known that the experience of when a Oil is added to the Bearing Housing, as a method to fix a issue with a Bearing Interface within the Housing, has not shown to be long term effective.
Especially in a situation where the Bush / Spindle Interface has been able to move excessively.
The Interface has not been able to hold the Oil for a Long Period and the Oil has escaped from the Interface, leaving the unwanted movement to develop once more.
Additionally to my own experience, there is a report informing that the Bearing Housing has not been able to contain for the long term any Oil that has been added, and a grease was used a alternative lubrication.
How many TTS 8000's that are being Sold as part of a Package for the prices referred to above are free from the conditions being reported on anddiscussed within this Thread?
For myself ' I like the TTS 8000' not as a TT to use with its issues that are becoming more widespread known.
I like for the Challenges it can create, the opportunities it can produce to encourage a stimulation to better the Mechanical Interfaces and give it a New Set of Wheels.
For me and some others, It has been a great tool to be placed at a centre of discussions, Very skilled individuals have embraced the challenges it has presented.
Skeptics who fought with the notion, that there are inherant problems that are to the TT's detriment are now embracing the methods produced by the skilled, to overcome the problems.
In my mind the TTS 8000 has a opportunity to be a great TT, especially if the reported on issues are worked on and removed.
As a projection for the outcome, and drawing on the most recent reports of a Modified TTS 8000.
There seems to be absolutely no reason why the TT can not at least become a very interesting TT, a TT that I believe will produce performance that can go 'Toe to Toe' as a match to other Brands/Competitors born from this bygone ara.
Mhhhh....I am not experienced enough to know when a spindle side movement really becomes an issue. Indeed the spindle can be moved (without platter) but that takes some "force" - now without me actually "pushing", I assume (probably wrongly) that it is not much of an issue.
Anyway, when I got my TTS 8000 there was only a tiny amount of grease at the bottom but otherwise it seemed to be dry. The shaft looked very good indeed and a more knowledgable person was of the opinion that the deck had not been used much. I had some "thickish" bearing oil which I added. The only sound I can perceive now when getting really close to the turntable strikes me as coming from this white clamp inside the metal cap - whatever its function might be (???). I added some oil there as well - better - but I guess grease would be a perfect choice.
All in all the Sony plays beautifully and when I recap it I am going to see if there is any leaking onto the board - if so, I think I shall switch to grease as well - btw: does anybody have a link which grease might be suitable?
Anyway, when I got my TTS 8000 there was only a tiny amount of grease at the bottom but otherwise it seemed to be dry. The shaft looked very good indeed and a more knowledgable person was of the opinion that the deck had not been used much. I had some "thickish" bearing oil which I added. The only sound I can perceive now when getting really close to the turntable strikes me as coming from this white clamp inside the metal cap - whatever its function might be (???). I added some oil there as well - better - but I guess grease would be a perfect choice.
All in all the Sony plays beautifully and when I recap it I am going to see if there is any leaking onto the board - if so, I think I shall switch to grease as well - btw: does anybody have a link which grease might be suitable?
The Spindle will be a Harder Metal and the Spindles Base Set BSteel Ball are intended to be a Harder Material, than a Bush and the Thrust Pad.
Unless a Spindle or Ball have been exposed to a abrasive, it can be assumed that they will look in Very Good Condition if under a inspection.
To date I am not ware of a Spildle being witnessed to have a damage to the surface, but I do know of the Steel Ball with a damage that has been described as being caused at the interface to the Thrust Pad, where a abrasive was the possible cause.
Where does the Abrasive Develop from and become a condition that can cause a detrimental effect to a Steel Ball ?
Hence where I am not willing to suggest a Lubrication is carried out as a permanent fix, unless the Bearing Housing and Assembly of Parts are Cleaned and Inspected to be in Good Condition prior to being reinstated used.
Unless a Spindle or Ball have been exposed to a abrasive, it can be assumed that they will look in Very Good Condition if under a inspection.
To date I am not ware of a Spildle being witnessed to have a damage to the surface, but I do know of the Steel Ball with a damage that has been described as being caused at the interface to the Thrust Pad, where a abrasive was the possible cause.
Where does the Abrasive Develop from and become a condition that can cause a detrimental effect to a Steel Ball ?
Hence where I am not willing to suggest a Lubrication is carried out as a permanent fix, unless the Bearing Housing and Assembly of Parts are Cleaned and Inspected to be in Good Condition prior to being reinstated used.
Firstly I was in a rush to head out on a journey yesterday and forgot my manners.
As a correction, Welcome to the discussions Dubai 2000.
As a layman to the understanding of the absolute requirements of the tolerances that should be in place for the best function of a Turntable.
I can not comment on the excessive movements impaction on the Sound Quality.
I am off the view that a Stylus can detect a obstruction as little '2um' in size and that the excessive movements of the Critical Interfaces that are being reported on,
have the potential to be picked up on by the Stylus and the Sound Quality can be reduced due to the conditions being met.
Additionally the TTS 8000's owned by myself are being compard to other owned TT's.
All the other owned TT's are not with any of the conditions where a exceessive movement is detected, either in the Platter Spindle / Bearing Housing Interface or the Platter Spindle Interface.
My Investigations and follow up with the additional measures to create modifications are being sought as a method to produce a TTS 8000 that has very similar Interfaces on its Mechanical Interfaces as witnesed on the other owned TT's.
The reports received from the TTS 8000 owner who has already got their TTS 8000 bearing housing modified, using the designs that are in place for my owned TTS's.
Is making it known that their Modified Bearing TTS 8000 is a very noticeable improvement.
It is not yet known if the Comparisons are being undertaken between their New Designed and their Original Spec' TTS 8000's .
The Steel Ball Set into the Bottom Face of the TTS 8000 Spindle is a interference fit connection.
This Steel Ball set into the Base of the Spindle has been reported on, as being discovered to have a damage, even if the reports are limited in their number.
How may TTS 8000 Owners and Dedicated Resale Businesses know the condition of the ball ?, especially one that has potentially been carrying out ????? Numbers of Rotations in a less than ideal environment at the interface point.
The exchange of a Damaged Ball on the TTS 8000 Spindle presents an added challenge to the method where a Ball is seated freely within the Bearing Housing and Thrust Pad Interface.
To Choose a Ball as a exchange part for a free seated ball is reasonably straight forward,
and a individual with a reasonable amount of knowledge on the dismantling and
re-assembly of a part, should have the confidence to work with the operation.
Where the Bearing is dismantled to expose the parts to be exchanged, a Ball is available, that is of a Diameter that matches the part to be exchange, and a Ball Material is chosen.
In many cases a Sacrifical Part belonging to the Thrust Pad assembly is chosen, that is produced from a material of choice, which will be exchanged as part of the operation.
In the case of the TTS 8000, the removal of the Spindle to inspect the Ball set into the Spindles Base, is reasonably easy to achieve, if there is a reasonable amount of knowledge available on how to Dismantle / Re-assemble the parts.
When the Interference fit ball is exposed and inspected at the Base of Spindle, it soon becomes apparent that there is a need to be very careful with this part, if there is a want to remove it from the seating within the Spindle.
I feel quite confident that if I was let loose with a set of tools, the end product would be a unwanted product, and would be quite disconcerting if thought of to be used for the future of the TT.
Hence, the Ball Exchanges my owned TTS 8000 Spindles are to receive, are to be carried out in the same manner the recently inspected Modified Spindle/ BearingHousings, Interference Fit Ball was addressed when it was exchanged for a New Material.
This was a operation undertaken by a Skilled Engineer and a Material of their recommendation, was used for the New Ball and for the New Designed Thrust Pad/Sump Plug.
As said before the Final Part of the equation, to attempt to get the owned TTS 8000's to become a very similar mechanical match to the other owned TT's, is to have the
Platter/Spindle Interface addressed and have the Platter Rocking fault corrected..
My Platter will be a Donor Platter for this work in progress.
Note: Caution is best used if removing the Thrust Pad/Sump Plug.
The Thrust Pad / Sump Plug serves a third role, which is it is a height adjuster for the Spindle, the height adjustment is used to align the magnetic sensor.
As stated previously, it is not known if a tolerance for the critical alignment is available in the design !!, so the resetting of the height of the Spindle to the original set height is very important.
As a correction, Welcome to the discussions Dubai 2000.
As a layman to the understanding of the absolute requirements of the tolerances that should be in place for the best function of a Turntable.
I can not comment on the excessive movements impaction on the Sound Quality.
I am off the view that a Stylus can detect a obstruction as little '2um' in size and that the excessive movements of the Critical Interfaces that are being reported on,
have the potential to be picked up on by the Stylus and the Sound Quality can be reduced due to the conditions being met.
Additionally the TTS 8000's owned by myself are being compard to other owned TT's.
All the other owned TT's are not with any of the conditions where a exceessive movement is detected, either in the Platter Spindle / Bearing Housing Interface or the Platter Spindle Interface.
My Investigations and follow up with the additional measures to create modifications are being sought as a method to produce a TTS 8000 that has very similar Interfaces on its Mechanical Interfaces as witnesed on the other owned TT's.
The reports received from the TTS 8000 owner who has already got their TTS 8000 bearing housing modified, using the designs that are in place for my owned TTS's.
Is making it known that their Modified Bearing TTS 8000 is a very noticeable improvement.
It is not yet known if the Comparisons are being undertaken between their New Designed and their Original Spec' TTS 8000's .
The Steel Ball Set into the Bottom Face of the TTS 8000 Spindle is a interference fit connection.
This Steel Ball set into the Base of the Spindle has been reported on, as being discovered to have a damage, even if the reports are limited in their number.
How may TTS 8000 Owners and Dedicated Resale Businesses know the condition of the ball ?, especially one that has potentially been carrying out ????? Numbers of Rotations in a less than ideal environment at the interface point.
The exchange of a Damaged Ball on the TTS 8000 Spindle presents an added challenge to the method where a Ball is seated freely within the Bearing Housing and Thrust Pad Interface.
To Choose a Ball as a exchange part for a free seated ball is reasonably straight forward,
and a individual with a reasonable amount of knowledge on the dismantling and
re-assembly of a part, should have the confidence to work with the operation.
Where the Bearing is dismantled to expose the parts to be exchanged, a Ball is available, that is of a Diameter that matches the part to be exchange, and a Ball Material is chosen.
In many cases a Sacrifical Part belonging to the Thrust Pad assembly is chosen, that is produced from a material of choice, which will be exchanged as part of the operation.
In the case of the TTS 8000, the removal of the Spindle to inspect the Ball set into the Spindles Base, is reasonably easy to achieve, if there is a reasonable amount of knowledge available on how to Dismantle / Re-assemble the parts.
When the Interference fit ball is exposed and inspected at the Base of Spindle, it soon becomes apparent that there is a need to be very careful with this part, if there is a want to remove it from the seating within the Spindle.
I feel quite confident that if I was let loose with a set of tools, the end product would be a unwanted product, and would be quite disconcerting if thought of to be used for the future of the TT.
Hence, the Ball Exchanges my owned TTS 8000 Spindles are to receive, are to be carried out in the same manner the recently inspected Modified Spindle/ BearingHousings, Interference Fit Ball was addressed when it was exchanged for a New Material.
This was a operation undertaken by a Skilled Engineer and a Material of their recommendation, was used for the New Ball and for the New Designed Thrust Pad/Sump Plug.
As said before the Final Part of the equation, to attempt to get the owned TTS 8000's to become a very similar mechanical match to the other owned TT's, is to have the
Platter/Spindle Interface addressed and have the Platter Rocking fault corrected..
My Platter will be a Donor Platter for this work in progress.
Note: Caution is best used if removing the Thrust Pad/Sump Plug.
The Thrust Pad / Sump Plug serves a third role, which is it is a height adjuster for the Spindle, the height adjustment is used to align the magnetic sensor.
As stated previously, it is not known if a tolerance for the critical alignment is available in the design !!, so the resetting of the height of the Spindle to the original set height is very important.
If the bearing is dry, ie the oilite bearings have dried through heat and moisture cycling from use and lack of a decent upper air seal then the lack of oil film can cause precession of the spindle. Filling the bearing with oil will in almost all cases, short of tens of thousands of hours of abuse, fix this. Oil film pressure is very high, and certainly more than enough to offset 2g of cartridge pressure.
A noisy bearing indicates damage, in the case of 8000 necessitating either busing, ball or thrust pad need replacing.
If you're going to the trouble of pulling the bushings out you may as well just make a new bearing with an threaded lower seal. Far less hassle in the long run.
A noisy bearing indicates damage, in the case of 8000 necessitating either busing, ball or thrust pad need replacing.
If you're going to the trouble of pulling the bushings out you may as well just make a new bearing with an threaded lower seal. Far less hassle in the long run.
'A New Bearing' with a Threaded Lower Seal is off interest.
There are both British and German Forum Members who are going down the route of completely bypassing thr Sony Design, and incorporating a Bearing Assembly that is a redesign.
Does the reference to 'New Bearing' imply literally a complete exchange of the assembly of parts, or maintain the Bearing Housing and Modify it to meet a new design?
I have a Modification as a Design on Paper for the whole of the Bearing Assembly, it has been reviewed by a individual whos knowledge is streets ahead of my own, and it has been stated that with a few Tweaks, it is said to be doable, and the overall Modification is foreseen as a substantial improvement for the mechanical interface as well as for the Maintaining a Lubrication within the Bearing Housing.
Once the Thrust Pad / Sump Plug has been corrected to retain a lubrication, the Square Walled 'O' Ring will need to be addressed.
As said previuosly this part appears to Serve Two Purposes, one, where the part seems to be serving as a Damping, and the other, that is where it functions as the Side Walls for Chamber where the Lubricant Collects at the Sump Plug.
It is not possible for myself to suggest that this Part, with the Compression it receives, when placed into a completed Bearing Housing Assembly, can have an effectiveness that is a Long Term Solution for retianing a Lubrication.
At the age the part is now, and the effects of aging on the part, it would be safe to assume it is even further inadequate to offer a service life that is already questionable,
when used as a new part.
There are both British and German Forum Members who are going down the route of completely bypassing thr Sony Design, and incorporating a Bearing Assembly that is a redesign.
Does the reference to 'New Bearing' imply literally a complete exchange of the assembly of parts, or maintain the Bearing Housing and Modify it to meet a new design?
I have a Modification as a Design on Paper for the whole of the Bearing Assembly, it has been reviewed by a individual whos knowledge is streets ahead of my own, and it has been stated that with a few Tweaks, it is said to be doable, and the overall Modification is foreseen as a substantial improvement for the mechanical interface as well as for the Maintaining a Lubrication within the Bearing Housing.
Once the Thrust Pad / Sump Plug has been corrected to retain a lubrication, the Square Walled 'O' Ring will need to be addressed.
As said previuosly this part appears to Serve Two Purposes, one, where the part seems to be serving as a Damping, and the other, that is where it functions as the Side Walls for Chamber where the Lubricant Collects at the Sump Plug.
It is not possible for myself to suggest that this Part, with the Compression it receives, when placed into a completed Bearing Housing Assembly, can have an effectiveness that is a Long Term Solution for retianing a Lubrication.
At the age the part is now, and the effects of aging on the part, it would be safe to assume it is even further inadequate to offer a service life that is already questionable,
when used as a new part.
An oiled felt ring will suffice, did the job for 50 years on a Garrard 301.
We're it mine I'd just make a new bearing from an alloy journal with threaded lower end, a threaded lower cap with oring seal and a lignum vitae thrust pad and a pair of oilite bushings and ground tungsten carbide shaft with a ball sat in the end. I'd tolerance shaft and oilite bearings to take a constant oil film rather than just rely on impregnation.
You could get that knocked up for 200 quid and it'd last forever.
We're it mine I'd just make a new bearing from an alloy journal with threaded lower end, a threaded lower cap with oring seal and a lignum vitae thrust pad and a pair of oilite bushings and ground tungsten carbide shaft with a ball sat in the end. I'd tolerance shaft and oilite bearings to take a constant oil film rather than just rely on impregnation.
You could get that knocked up for 200 quid and it'd last forever.
During my investigations, I have seen an attempt to Duplicate the TTS 8000's Bearing Housing with Two Different Materials.
One was a Housing produced from a Densified Wood, and I believe a Lignum Vitae Thrust Pad was machined.
The other was a Housing produced from Acetal (Delrin ?).
The same person who produced this work has also received a work done on their behalf, where their standard Bearing Housing is with the Modifications I have been been referring to, and a redesigned Thrust Pad is part of this design.
If a Brand New Bearing Housing was to be Machined to offer a improvement on the Interface where the Spindle Bases Interference Fit Ball/ Thrust Pad and Lubrication Containment are addressed.
The Bearing Housing Dimensions in overall length will need to be considered carefully as the Spindle Ball at present sits very closely to being Flush with the Inner Face of the Metal Pressed Bowl that the Bearing Housing is fastened to.
The point at which the Ball is being set is of importance, as it is also the point that governs the height the Platter is seated at.
The Height of the Platter is appearing to be a critical Interface, as this where it is creating the Speed Control Data, via the Magnetic Strip.
Suggestions on methods to overcome any concerns with the Bearing and its shortcomings are very welcome.
In my own view the more the Sony Design is overhauled the better.
With a very good design incorporated for the Bearing Housing Assembly.
There will still remain one other item within the Sony Design that will be of a concern to a person trying create a TT that represents how other TT's are commonly found.
This being the Platter that can Wobble when seated onto the Spindle.
I can't see any value in this condition being present, and it has not been found on any other TT that I own, but is on Two TTS 8000's.
One was a Housing produced from a Densified Wood, and I believe a Lignum Vitae Thrust Pad was machined.
The other was a Housing produced from Acetal (Delrin ?).
The same person who produced this work has also received a work done on their behalf, where their standard Bearing Housing is with the Modifications I have been been referring to, and a redesigned Thrust Pad is part of this design.
If a Brand New Bearing Housing was to be Machined to offer a improvement on the Interface where the Spindle Bases Interference Fit Ball/ Thrust Pad and Lubrication Containment are addressed.
The Bearing Housing Dimensions in overall length will need to be considered carefully as the Spindle Ball at present sits very closely to being Flush with the Inner Face of the Metal Pressed Bowl that the Bearing Housing is fastened to.
The point at which the Ball is being set is of importance, as it is also the point that governs the height the Platter is seated at.
The Height of the Platter is appearing to be a critical Interface, as this where it is creating the Speed Control Data, via the Magnetic Strip.
Suggestions on methods to overcome any concerns with the Bearing and its shortcomings are very welcome.
In my own view the more the Sony Design is overhauled the better.
With a very good design incorporated for the Bearing Housing Assembly.
There will still remain one other item within the Sony Design that will be of a concern to a person trying create a TT that represents how other TT's are commonly found.
This being the Platter that can Wobble when seated onto the Spindle.
I can't see any value in this condition being present, and it has not been found on any other TT that I own, but is on Two TTS 8000's.
One Last consideration to Ponder if the method to produce New Parts to be used within the Original Bearing Assembley, or a New Bearing Assembley is the chosen method, is the mounting of the Bearing Housing on the Chassis.
The TTS 8000 has a Metal Pressed Bowl that is inserted into the Chassis and fastened with a few very basic fasteners with do not have appear to have the capacity to create a secure tight fastened connection, for then the Bearing Housing and Motor Drive are in use.
In my mind they are more like fastening tacks that are capable of aligning the Bowl to the Chassis.
The Metal Pressed Bowl is a very thin metal and it is difficult to accept that the design offered for use on the TTS 8000 can function and withstand any yield, when stresses are applied from the Functioning Motor Drive and Bearing Operation.
Flimsy would be a harsh term / description for the entirity of the assembly, but when compared to other similar designs that have been witnessed, the term is fitting for the condition.
In my mind the entirity of the entirity of the Bearing Housing Assembley would be best served as a mechanical interface, if additional measures were incorporated to ensure the assembley was when mounted into the Chassis, able to perform as a non yielding rigidly fastened design.
Out of all the TT's I have seen that use a Design that is similar to the TTS 8000,
whare a Metal Pressed Bowl inserted into a Chassis and is used to mount the Bearing Housing on to.
The 8000's Bowl Pressing is noticeably lesser in the metals thickness that the others witnessed.
From recollection the Thickness of the Chassis Metal that receives the Bowls retaining fastenings is more substantial on the other TT's inspected as well.
Whether this condition is improved upon the TTS 8000 and will be more successful at not yielding when stresses are applied Drive Motor and Bearing Function is an unknown ?
The TTS 8000 has a Metal Pressed Bowl that is inserted into the Chassis and fastened with a few very basic fasteners with do not have appear to have the capacity to create a secure tight fastened connection, for then the Bearing Housing and Motor Drive are in use.
In my mind they are more like fastening tacks that are capable of aligning the Bowl to the Chassis.
The Metal Pressed Bowl is a very thin metal and it is difficult to accept that the design offered for use on the TTS 8000 can function and withstand any yield, when stresses are applied from the Functioning Motor Drive and Bearing Operation.
Flimsy would be a harsh term / description for the entirity of the assembly, but when compared to other similar designs that have been witnessed, the term is fitting for the condition.
In my mind the entirity of the entirity of the Bearing Housing Assembley would be best served as a mechanical interface, if additional measures were incorporated to ensure the assembley was when mounted into the Chassis, able to perform as a non yielding rigidly fastened design.
Out of all the TT's I have seen that use a Design that is similar to the TTS 8000,
whare a Metal Pressed Bowl inserted into a Chassis and is used to mount the Bearing Housing on to.
The 8000's Bowl Pressing is noticeably lesser in the metals thickness that the others witnessed.
From recollection the Thickness of the Chassis Metal that receives the Bowls retaining fastenings is more substantial on the other TT's inspected as well.
Whether this condition is improved upon the TTS 8000 and will be more successful at not yielding when stresses are applied Drive Motor and Bearing Function is an unknown ?