>and they refuse to ship.
My last TT sale on ebay was this Realistic DD unit. Buyer was, of course, in NYC while I'm south of Seattle. I packed it, shipped it and it made it all they way there in one piece. Got + feedback on that one!
Some are simply not willing to take the time to properly engineer a package for such a delicate instrument as a TT. I'm sure I spent a couple hours on it, minimum, cutting and fitting foam block. That cuts into the profits just a bit if you "count" your time as money in selling such a thing.
I have a couple more to dispose of this way - unfortunately, nothing of quality OP would be interested in. I had a Rek O Kut platter and motor when I was still a kid, almost 50 years ago. Got it at an antique store in Schenectady, NY. I remember fooling with oil and the platter post / bearing to get it to turn again.
My last TT sale on ebay was this Realistic DD unit. Buyer was, of course, in NYC while I'm south of Seattle. I packed it, shipped it and it made it all they way there in one piece. Got + feedback on that one!
Some are simply not willing to take the time to properly engineer a package for such a delicate instrument as a TT. I'm sure I spent a couple hours on it, minimum, cutting and fitting foam block. That cuts into the profits just a bit if you "count" your time as money in selling such a thing.
I have a couple more to dispose of this way - unfortunately, nothing of quality OP would be interested in. I had a Rek O Kut platter and motor when I was still a kid, almost 50 years ago. Got it at an antique store in Schenectady, NY. I remember fooling with oil and the platter post / bearing to get it to turn again.
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I'm in NY! , around the fingerlakes area, born and raised, never even left the country. The Rek would be cool, but I'm sure not the quality of sound I'm looking for. Your TT probably had a tonearm, this is platter, and a beat up base with motor, so dont think it would be too hard to pack, and would think the extra $75 I'd be willing to pay would be worth it, especially seems how I would be making my own plinth. The search is still on lol. Kinda almost thinking of a Linco bearing and sub platter, get a platter and get the Chinese motor/controller........
"IMHO stay away from direct drive. Folks point to all kinds of "flaws" with DD - cogging, torque pulsing, longevity of the feedback loop electronics, etc."
That is the biggest bunch of bull sh*t I've heard here in a long time. That nonsense was started by the British audio press to try and save the British TT manufactures from going belly up after the Japanese came out with DD technology. They saw their motorcycle and auto industries decimated by the vastly superior and reliable Japanese offerings and needed to make up a story why no true audiophile would ever own a Japanese DD table.
40 years or more later no one has offered up test results showing all this cogging and torque pulsing. If the British press could actually prove it, it would have been front page news. Sadly other audio magazines jumped on that band wagon.
A good quality DD table has shown time and again that it will have the best specs and usually by a wide margin. Heck, Rega, highly touted by some will not even publish the specs on their tables, what does that tell you?
So don't keep regurgitating this crap over and over, it shows your ignorance.
BillWojo
That is the biggest bunch of bull sh*t I've heard here in a long time. That nonsense was started by the British audio press to try and save the British TT manufactures from going belly up after the Japanese came out with DD technology. They saw their motorcycle and auto industries decimated by the vastly superior and reliable Japanese offerings and needed to make up a story why no true audiophile would ever own a Japanese DD table.
40 years or more later no one has offered up test results showing all this cogging and torque pulsing. If the British press could actually prove it, it would have been front page news. Sadly other audio magazines jumped on that band wagon.
A good quality DD table has shown time and again that it will have the best specs and usually by a wide margin. Heck, Rega, highly touted by some will not even publish the specs on their tables, what does that tell you?
So don't keep regurgitating this crap over and over, it shows your ignorance.
BillWojo
I would assume that listening to a record playing is a very enchanting experience.
In fact, having it rotate at 33 1/3 RPM and setting a diamond stylus on it is a relatively simple process.
And guess what, if you're loaded with endless funds, you can have your choice of machines.
Nevertheless, prices aside, a quite satisfying experience can be had for almost nothing.
I myself don't require superficial glamour in a machine, my main focus is on the music it can provide.
With a direct-drive machine that has a confirmed 0.025% wow/flutter figure, and an equally invisible "under 60dB rumble" figure, why would anyone desire more?
Forgot to mention a well thought out linear-tracking tonearm loaded with a nice diamond tip by Audio Technica.
And it didn't cost me an arm and a leg either.
Ya gotta look around - turntables from a while back when they were made well, are out there.
In fact, having it rotate at 33 1/3 RPM and setting a diamond stylus on it is a relatively simple process.
And guess what, if you're loaded with endless funds, you can have your choice of machines.
Nevertheless, prices aside, a quite satisfying experience can be had for almost nothing.
I myself don't require superficial glamour in a machine, my main focus is on the music it can provide.
With a direct-drive machine that has a confirmed 0.025% wow/flutter figure, and an equally invisible "under 60dB rumble" figure, why would anyone desire more?
Forgot to mention a well thought out linear-tracking tonearm loaded with a nice diamond tip by Audio Technica.
And it didn't cost me an arm and a leg either.
Ya gotta look around - turntables from a while back when they were made well, are out there.
I totally agree, Bill.
It's a part of the "controlling factor" which permeates every part of everyone's lives.
"Don't do this, but do this instead, it's better"
Decades ago, record changers were the target of manipulation, with manufacturers producing "single play" machines in order to corner the market.
So, the hype was "don't stack your records, you'll damage them"
This instilled "fear" in those who heard it said, yet no one had a way to judge the basis of such crap talk.
The same goes for the era of "the lighter the tonearm, the better"
Which, to a point, is true, but led to an obsession and barrage of lighter and lighter cartridge designs, some claiming 1/2 gram ability.
God forbid any of us played our records on anything less than expensive equipment!
Keep that "fear" going....
Many people bought it, even I, early on, was swayed by all the hype, until I did my own digging, and came to the realization that it was all just marketing hype.
When my parents died, I aquired a lot of their favorite records, as some of us do, to "cling" to memories of them, years gone by.... times of growing up... etc.
Now, they played the hell out of some of them, on a 1963 RCA Victor console stereo, with the RCA "Studiomatic" record changer, with an RCA designed ceramic cartridge tracking at...... god forbid!...... a horse-heavy 5.5 grams!
And on my fine system, decades later, they play just fine!
No raspiness to Peggy Lee, or Connie Francis.. how could that be possible?
Frank Sinatra and Herb Alpert's trumpets are still clean and clear!
These LP's were played frequently on that old console!
I'm not going to debate others over this, nor do I want to hear endless cries of differing opinions.
I know what I know, and hear with my own ears.
That's when I "saw the light" around my late 20's, and saw the marketing for what it's really all about.
Now, being a seasoned old buzzard, nobody's gonna tell me different.
I sold a decent Dual 1241 last year to a guy, the cartridge I installed tracked nicely at 3 grams.
The guy said, "that's a bit on the heavy side, isn't it?"
I quelled his fears, and explained to him to distance himself from the "internet driven" crapola.
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Now guys........hahahaha. this is like the old ford vs. Chevy sorta thing. They both have their pros and cons. (They're both $&it these days in my opinion the last good truck was made in 2006) I have roughly 35 turntables saved on ebay and reverb, and will be going through how each one is built, again, a lot of the DD are fully auto, and not sure how much of that I can strip out. That's not to say I'm also not shooting for a sota platter assembly either.....hell, I even went as far as to find a complete jvc RT-81 for $350, problem is, things mint, like flawless, all of it. It's not the $, but I dont want that tone arm, or a flawless plinth........
My whole life I research, because I want to know what's the best for my $, I researched the crap out fluance and all the reviews, online videos etc. Before asking my mother if she could get me one for christmas. Every time I fire it up, I'm floored by the sound. I'm sure it will get better once I upgrade the cart, but again, this is all about a project, to do with my mother, so I can have just one more thing to look at, enjoy, and remember her by down the road. I just found another jvc-81 for $350 thatvwont ship either, and in mint condition ! The whole world is against me! Hahaha. I may be only 38, but if you walk into my house (just bought this year!) Everything has a story, from my original cival war muskets on the wall to the antique cow bell collection.
@Pattyt-
I built a decent plinth ( DIY CLD Plinth Design--A measured Approach ), put a $500 Jelco 750 tonearm on it, found a $200 platter/bearing on e-Bay and drive it with a 3 phase motor with DIY controller. I auditioned the $15K VPI DD and I could not tell the difference between the two with identical carts. You could easily use a $50 AC synch motor and drive it from the wall outlet and you will have a table that compares favorably to a $5K VPI table for <$1K. These guys ( Turntable Phonograph Vinyl Record Player lsolation Feet – Mnpctech ) make some very good isolation feet.
I built a decent plinth ( DIY CLD Plinth Design--A measured Approach ), put a $500 Jelco 750 tonearm on it, found a $200 platter/bearing on e-Bay and drive it with a 3 phase motor with DIY controller. I auditioned the $15K VPI DD and I could not tell the difference between the two with identical carts. You could easily use a $50 AC synch motor and drive it from the wall outlet and you will have a table that compares favorably to a $5K VPI table for <$1K. These guys ( Turntable Phonograph Vinyl Record Player lsolation Feet – Mnpctech ) make some very good isolation feet.
Great googly moogly man! Uh.....yeah......when building a plinth it was just going to be......thats pretty wood, ill use that, after seeing yours, and reading some of the 500 pages, maybe I'd layer in between the wood with acoustic dampening material (we use it in the auto stereo for blocking door panel vibrations) or a multilayer of mdf, and that stuff, like 5 layers or something and just side it and top it with real wood of whatever looks sweet. Your skills and stuff are waaaaaay outa my league. Wish someone would put together diy kits, choose your platter, your bearing choice, ex. $30-200, and motor kit. Done.
Other thing I'm noticing with your style tables is it looks like 33rpm only (are vpi like that?) As I just got a Diana Krall limited 45 last week, you bet your a im going to want to ay that! Was also just looking at yamaha 550 and d6 TT, as they are on ebay for parts, do the control box outboard, and just mount motor in plinth would be cool with the switches and knobs being silver and what-not. But I honestly don't understand how the platter works, does it just rest on the motor spindle? It doesn't slip? I don't see a key. And like can I use a different platter on a d6 motor because the stock one has those dam timing bumps that I can't stand. How does the strobe work? Does the strobe have to see those bumps to time itself? Is the 500 with hall sensor a better setup? Hows the bearings in the motor? What would a step up be from the 500 be? Ugh......my head hurts, im going to go lay down lol.
So, I found the perfect setup after 2 weeks of constant searching and researching, project rpm 5, no tone arm, just a platter, bearing, and separate motor, and yes, even shipping! Make a custom plinth, transfer acrylic platter and bearing, buy a belt, next summer save up for a nice (sme?3009?) Tone arm and cartridge, bam, have a custom high end table that ill never want to "upgrade" and the memories of mom and I building it together.........
Sounds perfect........
30 seconds later her hot water heater blew......
The pro-ject is $600.......moms new hot water heater (guy will be here in a few hours) $600........
Being a new homeowner i keep facing the reality of not being able to buy whatever I want and pay for it whenever. I could throw it on a charge card, that feeling of "ill never come across this again in my lifetime!" Has a firm grip on my soul. The chance to have something I've always dreamed about ever since I've first laid eyes on a fat sleek plattered TT. Could throw it on my credit card and figure it out later.....
The whole time I'm typing this im listening to Diana, on a limited number release 45.....
It sounds amazing on my RT-81. I offered the guy $400, and he responded theyre going to hold firm on that price for now.
So I'm on hold at this moment, but Diana is making the world a little less sucky.
Sounds perfect........
30 seconds later her hot water heater blew......
The pro-ject is $600.......moms new hot water heater (guy will be here in a few hours) $600........
Being a new homeowner i keep facing the reality of not being able to buy whatever I want and pay for it whenever. I could throw it on a charge card, that feeling of "ill never come across this again in my lifetime!" Has a firm grip on my soul. The chance to have something I've always dreamed about ever since I've first laid eyes on a fat sleek plattered TT. Could throw it on my credit card and figure it out later.....
The whole time I'm typing this im listening to Diana, on a limited number release 45.....
It sounds amazing on my RT-81. I offered the guy $400, and he responded theyre going to hold firm on that price for now.
So I'm on hold at this moment, but Diana is making the world a little less sucky.
My situation sounds pretty familiar to yours. I have been into audio since age seven or so. Wanted to work in the auto industry so I got a mechanical engineering degree and then did a MSME focusing on vibration and acoustics. I was able to combine my passion for sound with passion for cars and other mechanical things so I really enjoy what I do for a living. I also have been into RC cars, built seven tube guitar amps, a tube headphone amp, and countless guitar effects pedals. Built a new home three years ago and am finally finishing our basement and putting together a system nicer than anything I've ever had, or even thought I would have. It's nothing crazy but I'm running Focal Chora 826 floor standing speakers in the front with a pair of SVS SB-2000 Pro subwoofers flanking the Focals. I also bought a Fluance RT-85 to give vinyl "one more shot" since I've had turntables in the past but never really got into it. Well, after trying the RT-85, I went head over heels for the whole vinyl experience and have a feeling I'm doing things a little backwards. I have a Hana ML cartridge on the Fluance now and am running that through a Parasound ZPhono XRM phono stage and my amp is a Lexicon RV-6 since it has to pull occasional home theater duties.
I've been playing the isolation / damping game to try to rid some low frequency resonances in the Fluance and am ready to go all-in and jump to a VPI. I was about ready to pull the trigger on the VPI Super Prime Scout package that Upscale Audio in California puts together for $2899 and then we got word that the owner of the lake cabin next to my parents was thinking of selling her place so turntable money went *poof* and will now be going towards less exciting things like a new roof for the cabin. So, now I'm designing my own turntable and am using the VPI Avenger as somewhat of a design reference. I'm fortunate enough to have some good machinist friends so I'm going to give it a shot.
I'm starting with the Anaheim Automations brushless DC motor and am building Phoenix's DIY 4-Phase Sinewave Generator as well as the motor drive board - all project files are on this site. DIY 4 Phase Sinewave Generator for Turntable Motor Drive Hat's off to Phoenix and others for making all of this information available and so easy to order.
Once I get the motor / controller running, I'll move onto the platter / bearing design challenge. Maybe some drill rod from McMaster, sintered bronze bushing, chrome ball running on a Vespel or PEEK disc and then lap it together so tolerances are stupid tight.
Platter and plinth should be fairly straightforward. I'll have to suck it up and buy a good tonearm but I think the rest of the build should be a lot of fun given my vibration / noise control expertise. I'm thinking I can build something similar to the VPI Avenger (minus tonearm) for around $1500 or so. Will it work as well? Who knows, but I'll be learning and enjoying myself along the way so we'll see.
Oh, I just got the 45 RPM Diana Krall Live in Paris today from AcousticSounds. I already had the 33rpm version so I'll spin the 45 tonight and see how it compares. If you like Diana Krall - try Vanessa Fernandez. Especially "Here but I'm gone" track - awesome mix and vocals are so front and center that when I put my son in the sweet spot and cranked it up for him, he whipped his head around with a big smile when the vocals came in. Incredible.
I've been playing the isolation / damping game to try to rid some low frequency resonances in the Fluance and am ready to go all-in and jump to a VPI. I was about ready to pull the trigger on the VPI Super Prime Scout package that Upscale Audio in California puts together for $2899 and then we got word that the owner of the lake cabin next to my parents was thinking of selling her place so turntable money went *poof* and will now be going towards less exciting things like a new roof for the cabin. So, now I'm designing my own turntable and am using the VPI Avenger as somewhat of a design reference. I'm fortunate enough to have some good machinist friends so I'm going to give it a shot.
I'm starting with the Anaheim Automations brushless DC motor and am building Phoenix's DIY 4-Phase Sinewave Generator as well as the motor drive board - all project files are on this site. DIY 4 Phase Sinewave Generator for Turntable Motor Drive Hat's off to Phoenix and others for making all of this information available and so easy to order.
Once I get the motor / controller running, I'll move onto the platter / bearing design challenge. Maybe some drill rod from McMaster, sintered bronze bushing, chrome ball running on a Vespel or PEEK disc and then lap it together so tolerances are stupid tight.
Platter and plinth should be fairly straightforward. I'll have to suck it up and buy a good tonearm but I think the rest of the build should be a lot of fun given my vibration / noise control expertise. I'm thinking I can build something similar to the VPI Avenger (minus tonearm) for around $1500 or so. Will it work as well? Who knows, but I'll be learning and enjoying myself along the way so we'll see.
Oh, I just got the 45 RPM Diana Krall Live in Paris today from AcousticSounds. I already had the 33rpm version so I'll spin the 45 tonight and see how it compares. If you like Diana Krall - try Vanessa Fernandez. Especially "Here but I'm gone" track - awesome mix and vocals are so front and center that when I put my son in the sweet spot and cranked it up for him, he whipped his head around with a big smile when the vocals came in. Incredible.
Well, update, after very much searching and thoughts, I bought a used rega planer 2 (vintage) with out a tonearm and needs a belt. Way I see it, you can completely build this table with 100% aftermarket hop ups. Ill build a DIY tonearm, and slap on of my MM carts on it for now, and build my marantz TT7007 plinth, and as budget allows, get the 24v motor upgrade, get the neo for convienant speed changes, a aluminum sub platter, maybe a better platter, build a MC phono amp, get a nice MC cart.....
Nice that there's parts availability, and a upgrade path.
Nice that there's parts availability, and a upgrade path.
Good luck with your build! How does the 45 compare to the 33 on the fluance? Often wondered if its really worth it as I don't have a $1.5 million system lol. I'm sure I've heard vanessa, ill have to look her up!
A good DD like the SP10 has W&F figures of 0.035% which is inaudible. Most of the W&F will be caused by LP warp and eccentricity and platter vertical/horizontal runout. If cogging was an issue W&F would be audible. There are lot of DD's still in use after 40 years so longevity is a non issue, and no belt to replace.
Even belt drive TT's cog. If the belt is not precision ground or there is dirt on the drive surfaces will increase speed instability. Precision ground belts are expensive.
I've had an LP12 and SP10 among others and the SP10 beats the LP12 hands down. Infact the SP10 is the best TT I have had and will be the last.
No system is perfect and you need to decide which compromises you are prepared to accept.
Good to see you settled on a TT. The older Rega's seem to be much better than the newer ones.
Don't waste your money on an MC. It's a total fallacy MC's are better than MM's. Buy a good MM, some of the vintage MM's are brilliant, Stanton 881s Technics EPC205 to name 2. Both of these will out perform MC's costing $1000's. I use the ECP205 with a Jico SAS ruby stylus and it out performs all of the high $$ MC's I have ever owned.
MC's were gaining popularity when I was an apprentice with Marantz. The manufacturers for the most part used better diamond profiles on their MC's than the MM's, there were a few exceptions 881, AT150MLX and EPC100/205, which were used by the great mastering engineers. I remember reading an interview with Doug Sax (who used a Stanton 881) and his comment was no MC he had heard sounded like the master tape.
Thanks! Sorry it wasn't a DD, I just dont feel comfortable with them, never done a recap before and worried about parts availability, and taki g the full auto out and doing a manual conversion plinth. This is a project that I can mod over the years and upgrade, but still have the basic table and arms (one bearing the other unipivot) that me and mom built, and one more thing for me to remember her by. And will be interested in can I hear a difference in this or that upgrade.
For MC, I just keep seeing posts on the denon 110? I think..... I do see they have been making big steps in the mm game (only been into TTs for a few years) just made my first cart upgrade form the stock at95e to the new vm95ml, and can't wait to try a high cart on this project table. Gonna have a ton of questions about diy arms and plinths....
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I had a Linn K9 which was an AT95e and it was a great cartridge, bit sorry I sold it. With a replacement he stylus is bettered my Apheta 2. The ml should be even better. These cartridges punch well above their weight. The Denon is a good cartridge but why buy a cartridge that you can't replace the stylus that will not be better than what you have.
A trick with MM's is to either glue or use blu tack to hold the stylus in the cart body. My K9 had the stylus glued in with superglue still replaced it and re-glued the new stylus. My current EPC205 uses a very small bit of blu tack to hold the stylus.
A trick with MM's is to either glue or use blu tack to hold the stylus in the cart body. My K9 had the stylus glued in with superglue still replaced it and re-glued the new stylus. My current EPC205 uses a very small bit of blu tack to hold the stylus.
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