I have a very old Califone, probably from the 60s, which is made from metal parts and has a heavier metal arm. I say all this since invariably when I say Califone I get, "it's junk, get a better blah blah blah..." I know what it is and understand its limitations.
Years ago I ripped the internal amp and tonearm wiring out and ran two silver leads out of the tonearm, connected to a Stanton 500 cartridge with the coils wired in series. This setup works really well for 78s, transcriptions, old mono LPs, etc.
But the table has a lot of motor hum that transmits through the tonearm when playing. I want to be clear, this isn't cartridge hum, which is not a problem, but a transferred constant hmmmmmmmmm that is only there when the needle is in the groove. It's definitely mechanical.
The idler is soft and pliable, as are the motor mounts, so I'm a bit stuck as to where to look to try to reduce or eliminate the noise. It has a very small idler - about 1.5" round - so I wonder if it's just going to be noisy whatever I do due to the size. I have not been able to open the motor to lubricate it, so am wondering if that is the likely culprit.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Years ago I ripped the internal amp and tonearm wiring out and ran two silver leads out of the tonearm, connected to a Stanton 500 cartridge with the coils wired in series. This setup works really well for 78s, transcriptions, old mono LPs, etc.
But the table has a lot of motor hum that transmits through the tonearm when playing. I want to be clear, this isn't cartridge hum, which is not a problem, but a transferred constant hmmmmmmmmm that is only there when the needle is in the groove. It's definitely mechanical.
The idler is soft and pliable, as are the motor mounts, so I'm a bit stuck as to where to look to try to reduce or eliminate the noise. It has a very small idler - about 1.5" round - so I wonder if it's just going to be noisy whatever I do due to the size. I have not been able to open the motor to lubricate it, so am wondering if that is the likely culprit.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Having owned many idler driven UK record players including the famous Garrard 301 the first thing I would look at would be the rubber mountings for the motor BUT a good way (but simple ) way of checking if the bearings are dodgy is to use the old "engineers stethoscope" .
Place a screwdriver to ear --handle end .
Place the metal end to motor --listen
The idler is more likely to cause changes in speed if faulty not so much transmission of loud motor noise unless the rubber is as hard as a brick.
Why have you been unable to open the motor --is it non consumer repairable as is usually the case nowadays ?
Place a screwdriver to ear --handle end .
Place the metal end to motor --listen
The idler is more likely to cause changes in speed if faulty not so much transmission of loud motor noise unless the rubber is as hard as a brick.
Why have you been unable to open the motor --is it non consumer repairable as is usually the case nowadays ?
These were sold to school districts for the language lab on low bid. Nobody else bought them. Nobody stocked them for retail sale. There were reasons, like low fidelity. Also fairly indestructable from mis-handling due to heavy metal construction. I took 7 years of public school Spanish, and no teacher ever suggested we use these things. Probably the records didn't survive long enough to be intelligible.
If you intend your source to have more signal to noise ratio than 10 db, junk it and buy something else. Records aren't free anymore, new LPs are going $15 apiece.
You want something indestructable that plays mono & 78's, look for an old Stanton sold to the radio station market.
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Use the screwdriver/ear.
Take the motor right out. Examine everything!
The soft bushings may be tight/hard inside. Rust, burrs, sloppy assembly.
The bearings may be tight. Does it spin long by finger? May be dry, or may be misaligned in shipping (smack it with a heavy plastic screwdriver handle). It may be unbalanced. Once very free-spinning, mark the rotor, hold it shaft horizontal, spin repeatedly. Does it tend to stop in the same place every time
Run the motor, ear it, eye it. (Don't get shocked.)
I have a feeling this hum is "normal". The same motor was sold for desk fans and for barbecue spits, where hum was not a big fault. In the Califone (and a million low-price phonos) the hum was moot because the speaker cut-off at 140Hz. But maybe there IS some fault you can fix.
Take the motor right out. Examine everything!
The soft bushings may be tight/hard inside. Rust, burrs, sloppy assembly.
The bearings may be tight. Does it spin long by finger? May be dry, or may be misaligned in shipping (smack it with a heavy plastic screwdriver handle). It may be unbalanced. Once very free-spinning, mark the rotor, hold it shaft horizontal, spin repeatedly. Does it tend to stop in the same place every time
Run the motor, ear it, eye it. (Don't get shocked.)
I have a feeling this hum is "normal". The same motor was sold for desk fans and for barbecue spits, where hum was not a big fault. In the Califone (and a million low-price phonos) the hum was moot because the speaker cut-off at 140Hz. But maybe there IS some fault you can fix.
If it is possible mount the motor on ---well it used to be a type of rubber but nowadays its synthetic nylon .
It must be pliable enough to absorb the mechanical vibrations but at the same time firm enough to keep the idler firmly pressed on the inside rim of the turntable.
While this is aimed at the engineering industry it gives you an idea of what I am talking about -
Anti Vibration Mounts & Rubber Stop AV Mounts | WDS
This one is nearer home to you-
rubber mounts | McMaster-Carr
It must be pliable enough to absorb the mechanical vibrations but at the same time firm enough to keep the idler firmly pressed on the inside rim of the turntable.
While this is aimed at the engineering industry it gives you an idea of what I am talking about -
Anti Vibration Mounts & Rubber Stop AV Mounts | WDS
This one is nearer home to you-
rubber mounts | McMaster-Carr
Well I was able to get the motor lubricated today, to no avail - noise is still there. The spindle seems fine as if I spin a record with my fingertip with no motor on I don’t hear the noise.
All that said, this table uses some kind of (I think) magnetic system as a speed control, with a large disc attached to the motor that is enveloped between two pieces of metal that move in and out as you turn a knob on the face of the table...the more you turn it the slower the table turns. The motor will not spin freely with this engaged, but does when it is removed. I’ve not yet attempted playback with it removed as I wanted to see if the motor lubing fixed it, so this will be next.
All that said, this table uses some kind of (I think) magnetic system as a speed control, with a large disc attached to the motor that is enveloped between two pieces of metal that move in and out as you turn a knob on the face of the table...the more you turn it the slower the table turns. The motor will not spin freely with this engaged, but does when it is removed. I’ve not yet attempted playback with it removed as I wanted to see if the motor lubing fixed it, so this will be next.
> magnetic system as a speed control
That is very odd. In decades as a glorified school A/V geek I have never seen it on a record player. I *can* picture Califone wishing to have a pitch-bending player for various instructional purposes, and trying to do it as cheap as possible. But if it is idler drive, a tapered motor spindle and a gizmo to shift the idler is common... why re-invent a wheel?
You may become an expert on this system.
That is very odd. In decades as a glorified school A/V geek I have never seen it on a record player. I *can* picture Califone wishing to have a pitch-bending player for various instructional purposes, and trying to do it as cheap as possible. But if it is idler drive, a tapered motor spindle and a gizmo to shift the idler is common... why re-invent a wheel?
You may become an expert on this system.
Do NOT !!! remove it -----it is called an EDDY brake and is there to VARY the speed of the turntable .
The Garrard 301 turntable is HIGHLY thought of in the UK and pricey to buy now ,I owned one for years and was stupid enough to sell mine instead of keeping it .
Looking at old US hi-fi magazines I can see it was exported to the USA and it got good write -ups at the time .
It uses an EDDY brake as a means of adjusting the speed and you can even buy replacement brakes on eBay.-
Garrard 301 - Manual - Professional 3-Speed Idler-Drive Turntable - Vinyl Engine
If you remove you have LOST the speed adjustment.
Its really down to motor quality and design I am trying to help you get the most out of what you have got as I assumed that's what you want ?
If the motor is attached to a metal surface without any insulation of any sort then vibration ( noise ) will occur it must be transmitting noise as you can hear it INSULATING that noise is your first priority if you mean to keep it as original as it is.
The Garrard 301 turntable is HIGHLY thought of in the UK and pricey to buy now ,I owned one for years and was stupid enough to sell mine instead of keeping it .
Looking at old US hi-fi magazines I can see it was exported to the USA and it got good write -ups at the time .
It uses an EDDY brake as a means of adjusting the speed and you can even buy replacement brakes on eBay.-
Garrard 301 - Manual - Professional 3-Speed Idler-Drive Turntable - Vinyl Engine
If you remove you have LOST the speed adjustment.
Its really down to motor quality and design I am trying to help you get the most out of what you have got as I assumed that's what you want ?
If the motor is attached to a metal surface without any insulation of any sort then vibration ( noise ) will occur it must be transmitting noise as you can hear it INSULATING that noise is your first priority if you mean to keep it as original as it is.
As this doesn't seem to be well known in the USA here is the wiki on it-
Eddy current brake - Wikipedia
Eddy current brake - Wikipedia
As PRR says, this was normal for a budget record spinner. Heck, it took me most of my life to realise that motor hum when a disc is playing was not a necessary part of record listening (and the remainder to eliminating it).
By replacing the electronics & speaker with better, you are likely making the issue more noticeable.
By replacing the electronics & speaker with better, you are likely making the issue more noticeable.
Whoops, sorry - I worded that badly. I didn’t remove it, just disconnected the control arm so I could spin the brake around 180 degrees, so it’s all intact. That didn’t make any difference, BUT in the process of doing this I inadvertently pressed down on the eddy mechanism and motor noise in general dissipated dramatically. So I tightened everything under the platter up thinking it might just be a loose screw, literally. I also lightly sanded the idler as once I engaged it without the platter on there was noise, so I may replace it despite its pliability.
But all that said, late last night it seemed like these two things made a difference. I want to listen more today with rested ears, though. This wasn’t complete eradication of the noise, but a respectable diminishing...but again I’ll listen shortly and see how I feel about it today. Thanks to all!
But all that said, late last night it seemed like these two things made a difference. I want to listen more today with rested ears, though. This wasn’t complete eradication of the noise, but a respectable diminishing...but again I’ll listen shortly and see how I feel about it today. Thanks to all!
Could be...I realize this might be a mirage I'm chasing. So today it sounds about the same, I suppose my ears were just tired last night. Here are a couple of videos; you can hear the motor noise as soon as the turntable starts spinning. I'm thinking next I might replace the motor mounts, I've nothing to lose, really.
33 on Vimeo
78 on Vimeo
Please excuse the dust, I've not really attempted to fully clean this player since I've not solved the noise issue yet!
33 on Vimeo
78 on Vimeo
Please excuse the dust, I've not really attempted to fully clean this player since I've not solved the noise issue yet!
What have you been listening to that makes you think your turntable is so bad? Just brings back memories of my younger listening.
Mains frequency vibration comes with the type of motor used.
If it's any consolation, the 1990s Project 0.5 turntable (entry level 'HiFi') is renowned for it - my first 'proper' turntable!
Mains frequency vibration comes with the type of motor used.
If it's any consolation, the 1990s Project 0.5 turntable (entry level 'HiFi') is renowned for it - my first 'proper' turntable!
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