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Editing of digitized vinyl music - Pros and Cons
Editing of digitized vinyl music - Pros and Cons
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:47 AM   #41
Panayotis Kritidis is offline Panayotis Kritidis  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE7 View Post
I have just started my Lp digitising and if I can achieve anywhere near your posted file I will be well pleased...

Looking forward to your further revelations...
Well, I thing I have said almost everything.. BTW, what is your turntable?
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Old 16th July 2019, 08:09 AM   #42
DRONE7 is offline DRONE7  New Zealand
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Well Tempered Classic..... owned since new so... hmm... 30 years plus ! recently refurbished with custom bearing replacement, new belt and fluids...
Koetsu Rosewood, Grado Gold, At95E...RJM Emerald Phono stage and either Adobe audition 3.1 ;-) or Audacity.

Last edited by DRONE7; 16th July 2019 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 16th July 2019, 08:22 AM   #43
Panayotis Kritidis is offline Panayotis Kritidis  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE7 View Post
Well Tempered Classic..... owned since new so... hmm... 30 years plus ! recently refurbished with custom bearing replacement, new belt and fluids...
Koetsu Rosewood, Grado Gold, At95E...RJM Emerald Phono stage and either Adobe audition 3.1 ;-) or Audacity.
Fine.. I think that in the case of any pivoted arm the most important think before digital editing if to adjust as well as possible the antiskating force.
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Old 16th July 2019, 08:28 AM   #44
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Editing of digitized vinyl music - Pros and Cons
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panayotis Kritidis View Post
Noise reduction (NR) is the most discussed and questioned part of the digital editing procedure. The main source of the noise are the irregularities in the grooves surface, which start from a given production level and increase with the use of the record.

On pre-digital material I find tape noise is often significantly above vinyl noise. I also would question you comment on noise increasing with use. If anything, when played with an undamaged stylus groove noise is likely to reduce with playing as there is a gentle linishing. The tell tale is if the noise level drops between tracks then it's tape noise.



What would be helpful to people is a sequence of examples.

1. Raw rip
2. Rip after declick
3. Rip after declick and denoise
4. Rip after final polish


Then people can compare and for those new to ripping decide just how far they want to go.
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Old 16th July 2019, 12:08 PM   #45
Panayotis Kritidis is offline Panayotis Kritidis  Greece
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Quote:
What would be helpful to people is a sequence of examples.

1. Raw rip
2. Rip after declick
3. Rip after declick and denoise
4. Rip after final polish

Then people can compare and for those new to ripping decide just how far they want to go.
I can accomplish a comparison of this type, by using of some carefully selected and not too long raw rip. I say "carefully selected", because, for example, a piece with a very few clicks could not expose fully the benefits of declick, while one with too much could be a too obvious example.

The benefit of removing the very low frequencies could be not easily detected with speaker systems going as low as 40 Hz. In fact, a speaker like this makes almost the same job as my low filtering, but for Fo = 40 Hz instead of 30 or 25 or 20 Hz. A speaker has to go really down to 20 Hz in order to reproduce the second and third harmonics of - say - the resonance frequency of 13 Hz.

The correction of the cartridge/preamp frequency response could make some people to dislike it because, in my case, it lowers with 1-2 dB certain region of mid/bass frequencies, namely 60 - 300 Hz. Some people prefer the enhanced bass instead of the correct bass..

Given all the above, I will make a comparison FLAC file of this type. Till then, I remind my existing demo file

YouTube

which starts with a short comparison between a raw rip and a fully edited one. Other old materials close to the subject:

YouTube
YouTube

A lot of hardware data in these materials is quite obsolete.
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Old 16th July 2019, 01:19 PM   #46
scott wurcer is online now scott wurcer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billshurv View Post

1. Raw rip
2. Rip after declick
3. Rip after declick and denoise
4. Rip after final polish
A couple of software tests that are interesting, looking at what was removed by the declicker can be interesting and building a file of ticks and pops and adding it to a perfectly clean CD rip and seeing how well the declicker does on it.

I wish I had the bandwidth to revive the open source project based on that paper on forensic restoration of audio that I posted a long time ago. The results especially of the recursive algorithm to fill the gaps were spectacular.
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Old 16th July 2019, 02:53 PM   #47
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Editing of digitized vinyl music - Pros and Cons
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
I wish I had the bandwidth to revive the open source project based on that paper on forensic restoration of audio that I posted a long time ago. The results especially of the recursive algorithm to fill the gaps were spectacular.

I wish I had the coding skills to help. I almost thought of calling up Cedar and asking if they would do a 'home' version of their appliance as sweetwater have that bit of the market currently sewn up.
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Old 16th July 2019, 04:10 PM   #48
Panayotis Kritidis is offline Panayotis Kritidis  Greece
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Default Test 5 (as we say 'Take Five')

After a suggestion of billshurv, I post Test 5

A comparison of an original unedited recording from a Soviet Jazz LP with 4 edited versions, where various types of interventions are gradually applied. Each part has a duration of exactly 60 s.

00:00 The original record, WAV 48 kHz 32 bit floating point
01:00 The same record after below 30 Hz removal
02:00 The same record after below 30 Hz removal and Clicks repair
03:00 The same record after below 30 Hz removal, Clicks repair and Noise reduction
04:00 The same record after below 30 Hz removal, Clicks repair, Noise reduction and Cartridge equalization

05:00 End of file

The vinyl:
Инструментальное Трио Леонида Чижика
Мелодия 33 С 60 05777-8
СССР, 1975
Вступление - Л. Чижик

The YouTube file:
YouTube

The FLAC file:
Jazz Trio Leonid Chizhik All 5.flac - Google Drive
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Old 16th July 2019, 04:26 PM   #49
super10018 is offline super10018  United States
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I used my HD600 headphone to have a rough listening of Youtube video. Clearly, unedited version beats every edited versions. The equalized version may come the 2nd because it got a lift in bass areas. However, the equalized version lacks the openness and natural flowing of music of unedited version. I will download the Flac version of the rip when I get home to further confirm my thought.

Personally, I never like Russian LPs. They may have wonderful contents, but sonically, it is not too great. I would also suggest to rip at 96 kHz.

Last edited by super10018; 16th July 2019 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 16th July 2019, 04:54 PM   #50
scott wurcer is online now scott wurcer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panayotis Kritidis View Post
04:00 The same record after below 30 Hz removal, Clicks repair, Noise reduction and Cartridge equalization

05:00 End of file
What do you mean by cartridge equalization? RIAA? It would be difficult to evaluate processes fairly with no equalization thought there are good reasons to declick before RIAA.
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