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Turntable DD or Belt drive. This is the question.
Turntable DD or Belt drive. This is the question.
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Old 24th June 2019, 04:05 PM   #161
wiseoldtech is offline wiseoldtech  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galu View Post
Watch in awe as this illuminated turntable puts a new groove in your records!

Yes, that "thing" is one of the things I'm talking about, "glitz and glitter" to make you interested enough to buy that crap.
Pure garbage, aimed at the "stupid" crowd.
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Old 24th June 2019, 04:24 PM   #162
directdriver is offline directdriver  United States
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Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
The problem with the cheaper BD Project's and to some extents Rega's is the noise coupled from the motor to the platter via the plinth, and through the belt itself. I had a c. £600 Project and bought a special kit for £25 from Henley Designs (the importer) to try to quieten it down. It did reduce the noise but between tracks, the motor came though clearly and I found that unacceptable. If there is one area on these level products that needs attention, its that one in my view.
This reminds me when I had a Pro-Ject table from a friend that came with a stock record clamp. Whenever the clamp was on I heard motor noise. No noise when I took it off. I came to the conclusion that the bearing shaft should NOT be machined with the spindle as one piece, as the bearing noise would travel all the way up to the spindle that touches the record. I understand it's cost saving for cheaper turntables but when it comes to "high-end" or cost is no object designs, I would prefer to have the spindle decoupled from the bearing.
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Old 24th June 2019, 05:45 PM   #163
Galu is offline Galu  Scotland
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Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
My Michel sits on a 45 kg Marble headstone (i.e. its what is used on graves)
Is the headstone inscribed 'RIP' - 'Rotate In Peace'?
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Old 24th June 2019, 07:16 PM   #164
wiseoldtech is offline wiseoldtech  United States
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Originally Posted by directdriver View Post
This reminds me when I had a Pro-Ject table from a friend that came with a stock record clamp. Whenever the clamp was on I heard motor noise. No noise when I took it off. I came to the conclusion that the bearing shaft should NOT be machined with the spindle as one piece, as the bearing noise would travel all the way up to the spindle that touches the record. I understand it's cost saving for cheaper turntables but when it comes to "high-end" or cost is no object designs, I would prefer to have the spindle decoupled from the bearing.

ANY noise transmitted to the platter from the spindle bearing is a sign of poor manufacturing, plain and simple.
I can spin my Kenwood's platter by hand to wild RPM's - possibly 2 to 3 hundred RPM perhaps even faster, and putting my ear to the platter it's totally - totally silent spinning down.
So I know that at a mere 33 1/3 rpm I have no worries.
The spindle is micro-polished, as is the bearing well that it sits in, and rotates on a single ball bearing that sits on a tiny teflon disk.
A smear of Super Lube on the spindle, and a dollup of it down on the ball bearing insures it'll never wear in my lifetime.
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Old 24th June 2019, 07:29 PM   #165
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Turntable DD or Belt drive. This is the question.
Hi Bill,

I feel exactly the same way about that low capacitance cable crowd. Sometimes I had to replace the internal capacitors in the phono preamp with a smaller value to get down to the specified value. Most often it was adding capacitance (and improving the capacitor type). It really bugged me that they would blindly come across as a "mister-know-it-all", talk someone into expensive low capacitance cables without understanding the setup. Many turntables were physically damaged by making holes large enough for the cable. Many terminal boards broken from heavy gauge cables that moved during reassembly. That sometimes meant rewiring the tonearm and gluing the terminal back together, or coming up with a whole new plan.

Salesmen can't be trusted on average. The same goes for many service people who also don't have a good grip on physics.

-Chris
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Old 24th June 2019, 08:10 PM   #166
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Europe
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Originally Posted by Galu View Post
Is the headstone inscribed 'RIP' - 'Rotate In Peace'?
Hilarious
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Old 25th June 2019, 04:54 AM   #167
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Turntable DD or Belt drive. This is the question.
I’ve only read the 1st post…

Back in the late 70s when i worked retail (back when the onslaught of DD tables came ou tof Japan) we had an entire row of turntables all set up with the same arm (Grace 707) and cartridge. Technics SP10, the big Denon and any number of lesser ones. And a range of belt drives including Connisour, Rea, ERA, LP12, and the cheap Pioneer belt drive. We did not sell any DDs (until the Kenwood KD500) because the belt-drives sounded better.

dave
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Old 25th June 2019, 05:34 AM   #168
wiseoldtech is offline wiseoldtech  United States
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
I’ve only read the 1st post…

Back in the late 70s when i worked retail (back when the onslaught of DD tables came ou tof Japan) we had an entire row of turntables all set up with the same arm (Grace 707) and cartridge. Technics SP10, the big Denon and any number of lesser ones. And a range of belt drives including Connisour, Rea, ERA, LP12, and the cheap Pioneer belt drive. We did not sell any DDs (until the Kenwood KD500) because the belt-drives sounded better.

dave

I'm curious, just what were the selling prices of the DD, compared to the belt drives?
And as much as a high quality turntable, properly set up, regardless of drive system, should be silent, how does one "sense" the differences and determine what "sounds" best.
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Old 25th June 2019, 01:39 PM   #169
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Turntable DD or Belt drive. This is the question.
Hi wiseoldtech,
Oh, now you`re getting into a very subjective area.

If the early DD turntables had light platters, I can see them being sensitive to acoustic sounds in the room. This would be worse if the test system was turned up a little, which they are almost always shown that way. Bearing noise would also be important as I don`t think the common DD tables had placed enough importance on that aspect. Certainly not the early ones I sold or examined on the service bench.

-Chris
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Old 25th June 2019, 04:04 PM   #170
wiseoldtech is offline wiseoldtech  United States
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Originally Posted by anatech View Post
Hi wiseoldtech,
Oh, now you`re getting into a very subjective area.

If the early DD turntables had light platters, I can see them being sensitive to acoustic sounds in the room. This would be worse if the test system was turned up a little, which they are almost always shown that way. Bearing noise would also be important as I don`t think the common DD tables had placed enough importance on that aspect. Certainly not the early ones I sold or examined on the service bench.

-Chris

In 1973, the brand new Dual 701's came out, their first offering of Direct Drive.
Prior to that, their line of automatic turntables were known for the attention to details - such as micro-polishing motor shafts with German engineering behind it.
In fact, in their advertising at the time, they even mentioned this special "micro-fine" polished motor shaft, making things as silent as possible.
So naturally, when that DD 701 came out, it too had the treatment, and ran silently.
The 701 that I recently overhauled for my neighbor, had a beautifully machined and polished shaft - I checked it under high magnification, and they did an excellent job of it.
My Kenwood DD also has a flawless spindle shaft, so I'm not surprised that it spins so utterly silent.
It's all in the details, all in the manufacturing process.
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