Ok, I have decided to get myself a turntable for the Thorens 124 that I had to sell some years ago but I am in doubt with myself and need some advise.
One way to go is to buy a Lenco 75 or 78, tweak it and build a nice plint to it or... and here I have my dilemma, to build a turntable from scratch and apply a lot of physics, experience (not only my own) and some sweat and tears.
I would very much like to build it myself but on the other hand as I understand the Lenco can become really nice also and there I can put my work in a linear arm instead, soo......... give me a hint.
By the way, anyone who have tried the Nano oil for the platter bearing?? Experiences?
One way to go is to buy a Lenco 75 or 78, tweak it and build a nice plint to it or... and here I have my dilemma, to build a turntable from scratch and apply a lot of physics, experience (not only my own) and some sweat and tears.
I would very much like to build it myself but on the other hand as I understand the Lenco can become really nice also and there I can put my work in a linear arm instead, soo......... give me a hint.
By the way, anyone who have tried the Nano oil for the platter bearing?? Experiences?
I think you would get a better return investing your diy talents in a linear tonearm rather than building a turntable from scratch. I can find/buy another turntable to replace my Thorens TD-125, but I can never find a replacement for my Rabco SL8E linear that I modified with photoelectric servo control and a viscous damped unipivot arm of my own design.
You can only decide for yourself whether a diy turntable or diy linear would give you greater satisfaction.
Ray K
You can only decide for yourself whether a diy turntable or diy linear would give you greater satisfaction.
Ray K
Looks like a very interesting arm - and I'm sure, well-performing.
I'd be surprised if it only costs $50 to make, though!
Andy
I understand that the Lenco is a very nice player and with tweaks even better but it is working against physics since the platters pivot point is well under the rotational center and gravitation center and here is my concern, I belive I can do better! (humble as I am)
I want to apply physics since I know that the platter bearing, in too many turntables on the market, are taking on very much unnecessary forces that are affecting what we normally call rumble and this is something I want to fight.
I also have some idea to use ring magnets to, not levitate the platter but just to ease the pressure on the bearing so that friction is minimized in all directions.
The platter would be a sandwich construction consisting of stone, MDF and metal at about 90-120 mm hight, inverted bearing, center of gravity and center of rotation at the same point and finally the drive belt/string at the same level as the pivoting point.
I am still scetching on the fact that maybe it is possible to center all active forces and the turntable gravitational center also, that would be neat!
In the world of machines/mechanics (no movie) I have seen well balanced bearings where rotational center coincide with gravitational center that have run down times of 4 minutes and much longer for the size and speed we have at a turntable.
I have not seen many turntables that come close to 4 minutes and more of run down time which point out the fact that we are facing some conciderable friction in ordinary bearings without knowing it with some rumble as a result.
As an alternative I have my thoughts in the Lenco, eventually with a new bearing, but with the use of Nano Oil and that was my second question, is there anyone who have tried this Nano Oil in their TT:s?? YouTube
Apparently the Nano Oil should be able to overcome a lot of inperfections in an already perfectly polished bearing so it could be interesting to try.
)I want to apply physics since I know that the platter bearing, in too many turntables on the market, are taking on very much unnecessary forces that are affecting what we normally call rumble and this is something I want to fight.
I also have some idea to use ring magnets to, not levitate the platter but just to ease the pressure on the bearing so that friction is minimized in all directions.
The platter would be a sandwich construction consisting of stone, MDF and metal at about 90-120 mm hight, inverted bearing, center of gravity and center of rotation at the same point and finally the drive belt/string at the same level as the pivoting point.
I am still scetching on the fact that maybe it is possible to center all active forces and the turntable gravitational center also, that would be neat!
In the world of machines/mechanics (no movie) I have seen well balanced bearings where rotational center coincide with gravitational center that have run down times of 4 minutes and much longer for the size and speed we have at a turntable.
I have not seen many turntables that come close to 4 minutes and more of run down time which point out the fact that we are facing some conciderable friction in ordinary bearings without knowing it with some rumble as a result.
As an alternative I have my thoughts in the Lenco, eventually with a new bearing, but with the use of Nano Oil and that was my second question, is there anyone who have tried this Nano Oil in their TT:s?? YouTube
Apparently the Nano Oil should be able to overcome a lot of inperfections in an already perfectly polished bearing so it could be interesting to try.
You don't actually know from the pic whether the arm has a pivot point which is pointing up ... or pointing down. (That makes a difference, in terms of "pivot point height".)
Also, it has an underslung c/weight - which is a very good idea.
Andy
My Roksan has a run down IIRO 4 minutes. However the question is, does bearing friction matter above a certain level? I think the answer is no. A few people on here have done some really good work on analysing vinyl 'noises' and have come to some interesting conclusions. Friction per se is not an issue as long as its invariant over a revolution. It's worth a read. The spoiler is that the technics SP-10 really is better than everything else when properly setup bar the Nakamichi TX-1000.
Making a Temaad 12 inch Uni-Pivot Tonearm Still looks wrong to me as there is a lot of rock there and little damping. NOT how I would do a unipivot.
Nano oil? Here's where to find it in the UK.
Nano-Oil - NanoLube Anti Friction Concentrate 10 weight by NanoLube.com: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors
Nano-Oil - NanoLube Anti Friction Concentrate 10 weight by NanoLube.com: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors
Hello TIC37,
My preference would be to design and build my own turntable. The rewards are greater if you do that. Anyone can take an existing turntable and spiffy it up.
When your turntable is finished, put an available tone arm on it and start building your own linear tone arm.
Do you have the necessary basic skills?
Do you have access to machine tools?
Are you not too old ?(like me)
Go ahead, use a "lot of physics" and do something different and unique. Don't do what every one else does, be an inventor!
Sincerely,
Ralf
Ralf, I have never built a turntable before but I do belive that I have some knowledge to apply. I am civil engineer in natural resources but the basic education for civil engineering have left me with some knowledge of both mechanics, physics and electronics.
Do I have the machinery to proceed....? Not directly but I know where to have things done for reasonable money and making up drawings I know so...
Lastly, what about the age....? Age is just a number! I know that building my own turntable will take time but not that long (I hope)!
Well I have been turning my idea back and forth the last months and it will most likely be one turntable of each.
My idea now is to get hold of a Lenco L75 or L78 to fiddle around with to get something to start playing records on the first half of 2019.
At the same time I will start a project of my own where platter will be made and bearing ordered sometime 2019 and then we see from there.
My projects seem to last some 1.5 to 2 years from idea to finished so hopefully I can have a turntable of my own idea some time 2020 or so, well before "best before date" of myself.
I feel like 22 even if the mirror is not that forgiving!
Conquer College others are truly from the heart. I hope that you are able to take heed and share this book with someone that you know could Conquer College
You do have to consider what measurement tools you will need to get an idea of success. I know this is a horrific idea to some but you can actually measure an awful lot armed with a laptop and a few bits and pieces. This has always been a missing chunk of the puzzle.
Blog Table of Contents is an interesting read as they are bothering to measure things. I don't always agree with their conclusions, but a good pointer. And there are accelerometer conditioner kits sold by someone on here.
Blog Table of Contents is an interesting read as they are bothering to measure things. I don't always agree with their conclusions, but a good pointer. And there are accelerometer conditioner kits sold by someone on here.
Unipivots needs to be stabilised somehow. If you look at this VPI about 8.55 into the video
YouTube
you will see visible rocking. I did not see visible rocking using my Moerch UP-4 undamped while playing but measured and found audible distortion in high-level signals. When using 600 000 cst silicon this disappeared.
I don't understand those using undamped uni-pivots. Even if they are preferred so, this is probably due to some distortion components.
I think the point is that even it you see initial wobble you cannot be sure how this interferes with the 0.555 Hz disc eccentricity. Note that the "overtones" may be had at 1.1 and 1.6 Hz. My Moerch did not have any visible wobble even undamped but did have distortion that could be related to the 0.555 Hz disc eccentricity. With the 600 000 cst it behaves like a conventional arm when cueing and has no distortion related to this.
Attachments
Well it is not that far from the subject. Knowledge of the actual disturbances in vinyl playback does help in designing the turntable and arm. It is a mechanical system with multiple resonances and those should be handled by frequency or damping to avoid that they are excited by the medium itself.
With respect to audibilty, it is a tricky question. But to be sure one could go for the known thresholds of hearing and then place that far below that threshold. If not possible, as low as it can be given the system. In this case it would be FM and AM modulation of the signals.
With respect to audibilty, it is a tricky question. But to be sure one could go for the known thresholds of hearing and then place that far below that threshold. If not possible, as low as it can be given the system. In this case it would be FM and AM modulation of the signals.
I'm with Thomas. There are so many known and audible sources of FM and AM in a turntable it seems daft not to use the tools at our disposal to measure and minimise them, otherwise you are chasing a magical effects box with no idea how you got there.
And I think this IS on topic as worth considering for the OP before he puts anything from 10s to 100s of man hours into a project!
And I think this IS on topic as worth considering for the OP before he puts anything from 10s to 100s of man hours into a project!
Well, I am in a start of my build, My advice is to build your own. Lenco will always look like Lenco. No fun in that. I also plan to build a knife edge bearing medium mass 12inch tonearm, medium heavy. But I will follow this thread.
About Nano oil, I can ask my friend that works as lubricating engineer in one oil company, he knows stuff and helps me with all sort of oils for my projects.
Good luck
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