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16/44.1 digital recording (on vinyl): source of ultrasonics
16/44.1 digital recording (on vinyl): source of ultrasonics
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Old 1st November 2018, 06:34 PM   #1
hollowman is offline hollowman  United States
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Default 16/44.1 digital recording (on vinyl): source of ultrasonics

Watch the following YouTube video (it's about spectral analysis of the 1985 digitally-recorded Beach Boys album, which was released on vinyl):

YouTube

The vlogger concluded that post-22khz content is "inaccuracies in vinyl" or "cartridge mis-tracking".
But I'm not sure I buy that. For one, he did not repeat the experiment with another turntable/cart. Or he didn't attempt to re-align the cart. Etc. ,etc.

What could be some reasons for the post-22k ultrasonic content shown in the video?
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:13 PM   #2
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
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What he said plus some vinyl noise and maybe some audio frequencies AMed by the flutter. If you think this is caused by the digital recording your wrong.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 11:31 AM   #3
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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A 44.1kHz digital signal converted to analogue would only have post-22k content if the system was faulty, either by design or accident.

Why reject the obvious explanation?
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Old 3rd November 2018, 02:38 AM   #4
hollowman is offline hollowman  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Why reject the obvious explanation?
A confused remark.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 12:38 PM   #5
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Are you going to help dispel my confusion? You could explain to me which aspect of digital audio I am confused about.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 01:11 PM   #6
dmills is offline dmills  United Kingdom
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Post 22KHz COULD be a poor reconstruction filter on the cutting head DAC, some of the early digital stuff was not exactly brilliant in this regard.
However I would tend to be suspecting mechanical issues with the scope trace scratched into a plastic disk first.

Was it just me or was the audio hitting that zoom recorder WAAAY hot?

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Old 3rd November 2018, 03:13 PM   #7
hollowman is offline hollowman  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmills View Post
Post 22KHz COULD be a poor reconstruction filter on the cutting head DAC, some of the early digital stuff was not exactly brilliant in this regard.
I inquired about that on a pro-audio forum. I.e. ,what kind of filter pro DACs (of that vintage) used. No one seems to know. Someone did comment that the cutter was rolled off after 17k (regardless of source) as that prevents it from burning out. Ergo, maybe no reconstr. filter used (???).

Quote:
However I would tend to be suspecting mechanical issues with the scope trace scratched into a plastic disk first.
In the "mechanical domain", the stylus/cart. could resonate those overtones (harmonics). But what the vlogger shows is a lot of "noise".
Anyway, an easy experiment to confirm that would be to record the CD release of the same album (or any digitally-recorded album of that vintage (e.g. Telarc)) onto a good cassette or open-reel deck. Digitize that at 24/96, and repeat the spectral analysis.

BTW: The software used in the video is Adobe Audition 1.5.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 07:31 PM   #8
dmills is offline dmills  United Kingdom
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Got to admit that mess looks as much like intermod as anything else?

It would be interesting to have a disk cut with pairs of non harmonically related tones at varying levels, you cannot see intermod on a single tone but it becomes VERY obvious with two non harmonic ones.

If the cutter amp is rolling off at 17k or so then the mess above there can only be cutter mechanical, record and replay chain issues.

Audition would not have been my first choice for this, matlab is much better at this sort of thing.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 08:12 PM   #9
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
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Microphonics. Just watched it again. Watch the part at the beginning of the record play before the music. Look at all the high freqs when he hits his computer keyboard!
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Old 3rd November 2018, 09:45 PM   #10
hollowman is offline hollowman  United States
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Default Intermodulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmills View Post
Got to admit that mess looks as much like intermod as anything else?

...you cannot see intermod on a single tone but it becomes VERY obvious with two non harmonic ones.
That would appear on the output of a CD player, too. But it doesn't. (????)
Did you/anyone watch the original Lp vs. CD video made in 2012 by another vlogger? The video in my OP was the vlogger's reply to this:

YouTube
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Last edited by hollowman; 3rd November 2018 at 09:54 PM.
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