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Old 23rd October 2018, 11:32 PM   #11
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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I tried to work out base clearance for a 0.5mil/13um conical with 8um base radius. My geometry has gone rusty so need to CAD it, but not installed any suitable SW on latest laptop. But I worked out there was about 4um spare. Not much but enough to make it worth a test. I now understand why ESCO offer truncated sphericals for shellac tho!


Aside a nude conical replacement onto a MM cantilever is 60. tempting...
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Old 23rd October 2018, 11:54 PM   #12
piano3 is offline piano3  United Kingdom
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I have some thousands of mono lps from all over the world and I have tried various styli from The Expert Stylus company over more than 20 years. However, my conclusion is that the standard stylus on the Shure SC35C (which I wouldn't dream of using on a stereo) plays the vast majority of monos very well. The only exceptions are the earliest Russian records (before about 1955) which absolutely need a 1 mil conical or elliptical tip. Some early American Columbia records are also better with 1 mil tip although the Shure will usually play them cleanly. A Denon DL103 plays the later monos stunningly well!
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Old 24th October 2018, 12:10 AM   #13
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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I did pick up an SC35 for testing. Can I confirm if you mean the original nude sphericals or the later bonded ones. I was a little gutted to find that the 'white label' stylii come in both sorts and I ended up with the bonded. They were however very cheap.
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Old 24th October 2018, 12:32 AM   #14
piano3 is offline piano3  United Kingdom
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It looks bonded to me; I shouldn't think that Shure have supplied nude styli for these for some time.
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Old 24th October 2018, 12:33 AM   #15
Galu is offline Galu  Scotland
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Smee again!

I've been trying to find out in what respect the formulation of vinyl in the 50s was different from today, but with no success.

I have discovered that the vinyl polymer makes up between 75 to 96% of the record weight, while the remainder comprises of additives such as heat stabilisers, lubricants, colourants and plasticisers.

When you say that your old monos are 'stiffer' and may be more likely to be damaged by fine line stylii, can you explain that in terms of their vinyl formulation?
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Old 24th October 2018, 12:47 AM   #16
piano3 is offline piano3  United Kingdom
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The older monos are definitely more brittle; not as easy to break as shellac but definitely breakable. I believe the material used by Decca was referred to as Geon.
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Old 24th October 2018, 01:08 AM   #17
Galu is offline Galu  Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piano3 View Post
I believe the material used by Decca was referred to as Geon.
Thanks - I looked up 'GEON' and found it was a trade name of vinylite. I then looked up 'vinylite' to find this:

Quote:
In 1930 the Union Carbide Corporation introduced the trademarked polymer Vinylite, a copolymer of vinyl chloride and vinyl acetate that became the standard material of long-playing phonograph records.
So, unfortunately, I'm no further forward in the difference in formulation stakes!
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Old 24th October 2018, 01:29 AM   #18
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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@piano3: The original SC35C which were ordered by the BBC to go with the MP1/18 arm on a technics SP10 were nude. These had 'shure' written in white on the stylus assembly. At some point this changed and I cannot find a reference to this. Later mexico production had 'shure' in black. What this means in terms of sound I don't know.



From what I can tell the SP10 was not considered good enough for radio 3 and was used in pop and local radio!
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Old 24th October 2018, 01:51 AM   #19
Galu is offline Galu  Scotland
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Apparently, some of Decca's late 50's LPs were made of 'styrene' (polystyrene), not vinyl. Decca claimed to have made them out of 'Deccalite'.

The link below says that styrene LPs should not be played with line contact stylii.

Ryan's Vinyl Emporium: Styrene: a risky purchase for vinyl record collectors?
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Old 24th October 2018, 04:33 AM   #20
PRR is offline PRR  United States
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RCA 7" 45s were polystyrene, and not pure at that. A little more resistant to scuffing in party-playing.

There's videos on YouTube of pressing plants in the 1950s. The voice-over says the formula is carefully controlled, but the worker is shoveling stuff out of a barrel with a shovel and the whole process looks not-neat. Pressure was to produce many-many records at low-low cost, not "sound quality".

I came across this today: Mike Oldfield - Tubular.net - Tubular Bells
"It was usual around the time of Tubular Bells' release {1973} for rock records to be pressed on records made from recycled vinyl (partly the melted down sweepings from the floor of the record plant). The use of this recycled vinyl resulted in lower quality records - Mike (and presumably Tom Newman and Simon Heyworth as well) was not at all happy with the test pressings made on recycled vinyl, mainly because the sound of the Tubular bells themselves didn't sound right. Branson eventually persuaded the cutting plant to press Tubular Bells on the unrecycled vinyl usually reserved for classical records."

Stupid, stupid--- when we printed "samples" (for advertiser review) at the weekly shopper, we used the good paper, but used the cheap stuff for the bulk of the run.
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