Cross-talk measurements vs frequency?

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?

I was too a few months ago. Old posts are visible as moniker ”TA”. Don’t know what happened. And what happened to Luckydog? He vanished from VE and here too.
Hi ThomasA, Bill, davidsrsb

As Bill wrote, I'd been ill and after a few ups and downs am more or less just back. I took a step back from posting for a time, but caught up regularly enough.

Sorry to hear about the loss of original content and material on VE to all of you affected, esp to Bill if it's all gone - not much one can say. Ask not for whom the bell tolls, and all that.

Meantime, here's a plot from my archives that shows calculated theoretical achievable crosstalk/separation versus error in coil azimuth. You can see how sensitive the adjustment is at the sweet spot!


Crosstalk due to geometric misalignment of coil azimuth should not vary with frequency, of course. It would be interesting to observe real measurement though, because one might predict that tracing error indirectly would be a cause of crosstalk, as stylus deviates from locus of the groovebase. This might well depend on level (angle) and frequency (curvature) of tracing a sine wave, one might think, and so vary with frequency? In which case it would also vary with level of a sine f sweep, and be modified by RIAA too?

Thanks for an interesting thread.

LD
 

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Hi LD,


Glad to hear you are on the up. Interestingly that diagram is one has remained, which I did find, but didn't (stupidly) copy.



I haven't forgotten I owe you a pair of balanced Aurak boards. Now #3 of brood 1 is finally at university I have the chance to test and post.
 
All is gone and just kicked out. No info other than that. I’ve been a member for 15 years or more.
Very sorry to hear that, ThomasA. I found your posts everywhere always well considered, interesting and challenging. And always polite and easy going. I say the same for other guys here in the same situation too.

I found loss of my original content was the hardest part, but also the separation from friends and people I'd spent years debating and discussing with.

The easy bit, surprisingly, was coping without accessing resources. Everything I've needed is available elsewhere though. In the case of protractors and offset/angle calculations it's easy to build spreadsheets that drop values and make better ones by hand diy. Anyone in this situation needing SS's or help just PM me.

Who can say what is going on? But don't take it personally, ThomasA.

Thanks for kind words, BTW.

LD
 
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Hi LD,

Glad to hear you are on the up. Interestingly that diagram is one has remained, which I did find, but didn't (stupidly) copy.

I haven't forgotten I owe you a pair of balanced Aurak boards. Now #3 of brood 1 is finally at university I have the chance to test and post.
Thanks, and soz to see you're in the same situation as ThomasA - same comments as to appreciating your interesting posts and content, always polite and easy going.

Unbalanced Aurak is still my main listening preamp, and yes let's hook up and test the balanced version.

LD
 
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Thomas: In the site news bit of VE

Account(s)
Thomas_A etc
Email Address(es):
<snip>
Ban Reason
Multiple accounts/Signing up new account(s) while banned*

Mine was 'Numerous reports of trolling and personal attacks'.

* oddly no previous ban message for you. I think he's overly paranoid after some spam bots got in a while back. But his website his rules, so shrug and move on :).

Edit: to keep in one place and my last post, I have found why LD was banned and I am slighly flabbergasted having read a lot of his posts.

'Unfortunately a small number of people, including ld and avole, have ignored polite requests, warnings and suspensions to hijack threads to push their own moral/political agendas'. Boggle.

Anyway all in the past. I'm firing up audacity to try and do some more analysis of those files.
 
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I am slighly flabbergasted...…..
Me too. Just look upon it as a rite of passage to a better place :rolleyes:

Concerning the matter of crosstalk versus f, for example, this is by far a better forum to take such things up if one is interested in proper discussion and objective debate from some pretty fine minds, IMO. If only someone had pointed that out n years ago, one big load of fairly worthwhile and original content might have been saved, and not just mine. [edit: you know, thinking back I recall someone did but I didn't listen...……..]

Besides, a forum is its membership, not a piece of internet software. Like a university isn't a building.

LD
 
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Moving on, I should explain more about why I dived down this particular rabbit hole. As part of the ongoing mission creep on my new phono stage I am thinking about putting a M-S processing section in as it gives me a couple of extra options for when I record files. The board I was looking at for this has a stereo width control that works by adjusting the level of side compared to mid and also has a simple tilt eq on side which apparantly can help lock in the stereo image on less than ideal recordings.

So I got all exited that I might be able to kill two birds with one stone. Until Thomas pointed out the flaw in my argument. However I still think there is worthy investigation here over the sources of cross talk and what (if anything) can be done to correct it.

I have a feeling that the cantilever flying around in the groove will produce as much cross talk as any misalignment, but as usual happy to be proved completely wrong :)
 
However I still think there is worthy investigation here over the sources of cross talk and what (if anything) can be done to correct it.
I think that is true for real programme material esp.

I have a feeling that the cantilever flying around in the groove will produce as much cross talk as any misalignment, but as usual happy to be proved completely wrong :)
Yes, that's my instinct too.

LD
 
I managed to order the Epsilon test record. I plan to analyse the results from the test records UATR, Hifi News, Tacet, Ortofon, Cardas, Epsilon with respect to 1kHz cross-talk fugures and publish them here. Besides the above therer are a few others in current production, eg the Clearaudio, which I don’t have.
 
When one thinks about it, for a sine test signal on one channel only, one groove wall is entirely plain, and the locus of the groove base has a 3D shape moving laterally and vertically so that effectively the stylus rides up and down the plain wall (as considered from the groove top) if all is tracing perfectly.

Which is a close relation to mistracing motion, where a stylus loses contact with one groove wall, and therefore (by definition) rides up the other wall.

Perhaps then, crosstalk performance might also be a figure of merit for tracing performance - or at least they might be correlated ?

Picture worth 1000 words and all that.

Edit: or consider pinch effect which moves a stylus vertically, and vertical motion involves components of both left and right channels?

LD
 
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