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Cartridge dynamic behaviour
Cartridge dynamic behaviour
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Old 3rd February 2019, 12:50 PM   #291
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiten View Post
Would this Phono cartridge (Link) pick up (or detect) resonances and other anomalies you gentlemen are talking about ?
Regards.
There is still a cantilever suspension system to deal with, strain gauge carts have no "magnetics" either and still have problems but they have the additional problem of the mechanical interface to the strain sensing apparatus. So who knows?

A little too much fluff in the write up but it's interesting that they claim most turntables are "5" wired. It's pretty easy to run through the SNR and sensitivity numbers of PD systems especially if they are only intensity modulation.
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Last edited by scott wurcer; 3rd February 2019 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 01:44 PM   #292
jackinnj is offline jackinnj  United States
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Cartridge dynamic behaviour
Hmm, you could always take two identical cartridges and set one up as the "transmitter", the other the "receiver". Mbe use Guerilla Glue to attach the two stylii to each other...
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Old 3rd February 2019, 03:14 PM   #293
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackinnj View Post
Hmm, you could always take two identical cartridges and set one up as the "transmitter", the other the "receiver". Mbe use Guerilla Glue to attach the two stylii to each other...
We've been over this there is no evidence of any more than a tiny (if any) coupling. A MM/MI cart easily survives 100mV @ 100Hz applied to the motor with no evidence of even the slightest motion under a high power microscope.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 04:39 PM   #294
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Cartridge dynamic behaviour
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1audio View Post
Second data point- the strain gauge cartridge from Panasonic used the compliance of the pivot and the coupling to the stain elements as part of the equalization, or so they claimed when asked why the electronics were flat. There is no 500 Hz or 2.2 KHz bends in the electronics so they seemed to tune the rubber for that. If so the eq would change with temperature. One could try the same for a conventional cartridge to see if the suspension is affecting the response.

But the panasonic electronics were not flat. The Gary Galo article goes into this in depth. There is some rising response from the strain gauge so the expected 12.6dB of boost 500Hz-2kHz is not needed, more like 9dB. But the reality of the eq that panasonic included suggests the actual cartridge was all over the shop.


Kevinkr has discovered much the same.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 10:15 PM   #295
luckythedog is offline luckythedog  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
There is an app that takes film and then ‘amplifies’ movement. You have to shoot in 4K and you will need to be on a tripod, but the results are quite amazing based on the video I saw. Buildings rock alarmingly in in wind, speaker resonances etc

Might be one to look at for cantelever and arm resonances (someone told me pickup arms resonate at c 800 Hz - true or false?)

Here is the link:-

Video Magnification
Thanks, love it anyway.

You never know, it might be just brilliant. What one would need is a headshell or cartridge mounted camera with a microscope lens at high mag.

The normal warp and eccentricity would swamp any attempt by a tripod etc.

Edit: Yup, a few hundred Hz is about right for the lowest supported mode of a tonearm, but actually that's part of a series of resonances in the audioband working through the modes. Not a sign of it in the signal though...………

2nd edit: here's a blast from the past for tonearm resonances calculated impedance

LD
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File Type: jpg Tonearm%20Impedance.jpg (198.1 KB, 113 views)

Last edited by luckythedog; 3rd February 2019 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 10:52 PM   #296
Hans Polak is online now Hans Polak  Netherlands
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Alex Korf measured resonance of a lot of different tonearms and tried to correlate the quality of the sound reproduction to the measured data.
Armtube Prototypes — Summary of Findings

Hans
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Old 4th February 2019, 04:31 AM   #297
Hiten is offline Hiten  India
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
There is still a cantilever suspension system to deal with,
oh yes. Forgot it still requires some physical connection to move cantilever and in addition a shading plate as they mention.

-x-

one more noob question. How about this. these days we use digital recording to cut vinyl discs. Now if there is a test record needed to be cut (suppose a frequency sweep) we take source sweep digital files and subtract that from digital file recorded from typical MM phono cartridge turntable system. Whatever difference it shows can be evaluated for ex. electrical anomalies a MM+cantilever+coil+magnet would be having ??? I read that we can distinguish various components of digital audio with spectrum analyzer. LINK There may be some better advanced software too.

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Old 4th February 2019, 11:54 AM   #298
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Cartridge dynamic behaviour
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Originally Posted by Hiten View Post
Whatever difference it shows can be evaluated for
Good but in there lies anything that is due to (master disk cut) + (transfer to stampers) + (vinyl pressing) + (vinyl playback) and you can not discriminate between all these.

George
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Old 4th February 2019, 12:09 PM   #299
luckythedog is offline luckythedog  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Polak View Post
Alex Korf measured resonance of a lot of different tonearms and tried to correlate the quality of the sound reproduction to the measured data.
Armtube Prototypes — Summary of Findings

Hans
Thanks, that all looks plausible. The sound of arms is about nuance, I think. IMO it doesn't show up as the 'mid dip' as sometimes claimed. It's a series of resonances that affects sound, but not in a way that is readily analysable using f sweeps, noise tracks etc.


LD
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Old 4th February 2019, 12:29 PM   #300
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Cartridge dynamic behaviour
Whilst sometimes Korf I believe misinterprets some things his measurements are very helpful. I wish I had time to repeat some of them. I'd love to measure my current in use arm, which is often scoffed at being a detachable headshell japanese S-shape, but at least with the one cartridge I have tried is producing beautiful music*, so much so that I am in no rush to swap back to my supposedly superior other table.



*No inference of accuracy is being made here, SWMBO and I are enjoying it. That is all
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