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Phono switching with relays.
Phono switching with relays.
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Old 1st February 2018, 12:10 PM   #11
Kay Pirinha is offline Kay Pirinha  Germany
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Get a 3rd TT :-)!
Best regards!
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Old 1st February 2018, 12:26 PM   #12
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Phono switching with relays.
How would that help?
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Old 1st February 2018, 07:40 PM   #13
AuroraB is offline AuroraB  Norway
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Somehow I fail to see why sealed, gold contact relays would be any worse the switches, - without checking the realities, capacitance may be an issue for MMS.... OTOH- separate RIAAs would certainly be the better option...
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Old 1st February 2018, 08:59 PM   #14
Koifarm is online now Koifarm  Netherlands
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I use a lot of relays for my phono amp, 3 inputs, mc or mm amplication and loading all switchable with relays. No problems with signal lost.
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Old 1st February 2018, 09:34 PM   #15
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Phono switching with relays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuroraB View Post
Somehow I fail to see why sealed, gold contact relays would be any worse the switches, - without checking the realities, capacitance may be an issue for MMS.... OTOH- separate RIAAs would certainly be the better option...
I remember Mooly mentioning a few weeks back that most switches were not really fit for the purpose either, but at least you get some wiping action with a switch. In my case doing what I want with switches would be a pain.

Capacitance is not as issue for the MM stage as I'm using a form of trans amp.
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Old 1st February 2018, 10:18 PM   #16
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Phono switching with relays.
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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
Any advantage in the wet contact? I see Pickering make it hard to buy, hopefully they will deal with the great unwashed directly.

No capacitors in the signal path, balanced and servo'd all the way. Horrible 8-legs abound . I think I have mission creep down to a point where I can build it in non-glacial time!
Sealed reeds are pretty good without wetting. I used Pickering Form A types in ATE hardware doing audio measurements at very low levels and had no problems.

Hopefully the relays offered are suitable. The Pickering stuff is very good as long as you design to avoid welding. (This is true of all reeds, no indictment of Pickering intended) No input capacitors goes a long way towards that goal.They will never degrade and will operate forever in this application. I got service lives of >2 x 1e6 contact closures without failure during test.

Relays are great if you get the right ones because they generally offer better isolation than the typical low level dpst or dpdt and won't require Bill to run wires all over the place with extremely low signal levels. Also allows for control by a mpu if desired. I use CMOS switches in amplifier circuits designed for measurements but I have not really disabused myself of the notion that they don't belong in audio designs (they probably do).
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Old 2nd February 2018, 12:00 AM   #17
BrianL is offline BrianL  United States
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Phono switching with relays.
While I would shy away from Pickering in a production product as I haven't experienced the best reliability with them, Pickering does have the advantage of having options for the contact plating. IIRC, Ruthenium is their recommendation for low-level signals.

However, see the article on reed relay distortion by Samuel Groner and Bruno Putzeys in the last issue of Linear Audio. Fortunately for your application, I think signal levels are low enough that this wouldn't be an issue.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 12:16 AM   #18
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Phono switching with relays.
As I'd be lucky to be under 3% THD before the signal even reaches the relay. Looking at the published diagram anything under 3mA won't be an issue and you can't get that from a cartridge!
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Old 2nd February 2018, 05:42 AM   #19
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Phono switching with relays.
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Originally Posted by BrianL View Post
While I would shy away from Pickering in a production product as I haven't experienced the best reliability with them, Pickering does have the advantage of having options for the contact plating. IIRC, Ruthenium is their recommendation for low-level signals.

However, see the article on reed relay distortion by Samuel Groner and Bruno Putzeys in the last issue of Linear Audio. Fortunately for your application, I think signal levels are low enough that this wouldn't be an issue.

Odd, we used thousands of them in semiconductor ATE test hardware and had very few problems unless we destroyed them by running them beyond the recommended operating conditions. Over extended periods of time in the lab we had less than 0.25% failure rate with lots of mistakes and abuse going on.

I will admit they are very unforgiving if you put significant current through them when the contacts are opening or closing.. (Welded contacts)
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Old 2nd February 2018, 06:07 PM   #20
Koifarm is online now Koifarm  Netherlands
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I use Meder Dil5k002 -BV338 5v, cheap and good.
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