An intriguing theory has been put forward in the Letter section of Hifi News (December 2015, p123) as to why people assert they prefer vinyl to digital, despite the undeniable problems with noise, distortion, clicks, etc etc. Mr Patrick Wallace points out that vinyl signals always come with a background of low-frequency noise due to pressing limitations & so on, and that some of this is vertical with respect to the stylus, and therefore appears out of phase and cannot be localised by the ears. He says it therefore is interpreted as 'surround sound' ambience on the recording.
This is the first hypothesis I have come across that gives a plausible reason why vinyl, with its inescapable limitations, might be preferred to digital, and I would be glad to see some discussion of this on DIYaudio.
I'm sure you are all wondering if there would be a market for a vinylising box that would add suitable out-of-phase low-frequency noise to clean signals.
This is the first hypothesis I have come across that gives a plausible reason why vinyl, with its inescapable limitations, might be preferred to digital, and I would be glad to see some discussion of this on DIYaudio.
I'm sure you are all wondering if there would be a market for a vinylising box that would add suitable out-of-phase low-frequency noise to clean signals.
That might be. One of the things about vinyl that I notice is now gone with CD is the kind of thrilling anticipation that I used to feel when the stylus was first set down onto a disk, playing nothing yet except LF noise. It had a feeling of life to it, definitely artificial, but seeming real none the less. Of course, if this was added to CD on purpose, I'd probably find it annoying, knowing that it needn't be there!
I once took the same piece of music (which is electronic music, produced on a computer, no real instruments) in two formats, vinyl and download version, ripped the vinyl and compared them. The vinyl version had a nice, full sound, with well defined bass, whereas the download version sounded thin and lifeless. Don't know if it was the mastering process, the vinyl itself or the preamp, but I liked the vinyl better.
I've ripped a lot of vinyl to digital, but I clean all of the clicks, pops, rumble, and other surface noise using software. I must admit it usually sounds fuller/better thN the CD versions I have compared them too. But it may make my be due to poor mastering Nd limited technology at the time when the CD's were made. Currently well produced digital music is hard to beat. But for the.nostalgia vinyl is a lot of fun, inconvenient, but fun.
PJN
PJN
Crosstalk gives better subjective channel seperation because it partly cancels L+R and R+L at the earrs.
Dynamic compression makes the sound more digestible in a privat environment ( see jürg Jecklin et. all. ).
Supra aural frequency content provokes the brain into allert.
Groove noise gives the impression of reality like a ancient painting in a neanderthal gave ...
What do we now how the brain works, i would say nothing...
Dynamic compression makes the sound more digestible in a privat environment ( see jürg Jecklin et. all. ).
Supra aural frequency content provokes the brain into allert.
Groove noise gives the impression of reality like a ancient painting in a neanderthal gave ...
What do we now how the brain works, i would say nothing...
I have started collecting vinyls again, and my son is also an avid collector. They do sound good. But, I also have some superb CD's (Yo-Yo Ma, Buena Vista Social Club' various classical and jazz recordings). CD has gotten a bad rap the same as feedback and solid state from a bunch of ignorant Luddites in my view.
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This is one thing of several differences hypothesized as "the difference" between LP and modern digital recordings. Having read how "mastering" has changed since LPs became the medium of choice, my pet hypothesis has been the difference between mastering for LP and CD, and especially the growing Loudness Wars, has been a contributing factor. I understand compression (of volume/level) was done in the 50s or 60s, but it was using different equipment and was done differently than what evolved in the CD era.
Isn't this like getting "tube sound" out of a solid state amp? Wasn't it Carver who once infamously did this by adding some low-level SET-type distortion and a little 50/60Hz signal? I suspect this can be done convincingly, but it seems it's still not as popular as those expensive amps with their glowing tubes and heavy iron transformers.
Good questions (I also recall mention of 0.55Hz frequency modulation due to the 33rpm speed and the center hole possibly being ever so slightly off), and sorting all these out would require ...
Evidence needs not only the equipment to compare, but good listeners to sit down for DBT's, and so it gets expensive.
I saw some spectra recently of LP, a sine wave had a second harmonic 20 to 40dB down, but I have little idea how much that would be a contributing factor to the "LP sound."
Can I draw attention to what is as far as I know the only serious study ever done to find out why people like vinyl?
Mike Uwins' article in Linear Audio ends with the following conclusion:
'This investigation has given a clear indication that the reasons behind the recent resurgence of the vinyl LP are numerous and rejects the hypothesis that audio quality is the sole defining factor. There does however, appear to be a clear link between subjective audio quality assessments and an individual’s appreciation of other attributes of vinyl such as the artwork, sleeve notes, or even their past experiences, pre-conceptions or memories of the format. It is still clearly a subject which divides opinion and engenders passionate views on all sides but this study has shown that it is possible to delineate auditory and non-auditory influences.
The manner in which the lab tests managed to encourage some of our subjects to eulogise over the sound of vinyl, despite the fact that they were actually listening to a CD, suggests that I have (at least partially) succeeded in my aim to recreate something akin to Edison’s tone tests, or at least the Memorex commercials.
Finally, it is suggested that in order to have greater confidence in this report’s findings, it would be necessary to not only make the refinements mentioned in our evaluation but also to scale-up the project, increasing the sample population of the on-line tests and also the number of subjects taking part in the lab tests.'
You can also do your own test on-line: Analogue Hearts, Digital Minds?
Jan
Mike Uwins' article in Linear Audio ends with the following conclusion:
'This investigation has given a clear indication that the reasons behind the recent resurgence of the vinyl LP are numerous and rejects the hypothesis that audio quality is the sole defining factor. There does however, appear to be a clear link between subjective audio quality assessments and an individual’s appreciation of other attributes of vinyl such as the artwork, sleeve notes, or even their past experiences, pre-conceptions or memories of the format. It is still clearly a subject which divides opinion and engenders passionate views on all sides but this study has shown that it is possible to delineate auditory and non-auditory influences.
The manner in which the lab tests managed to encourage some of our subjects to eulogise over the sound of vinyl, despite the fact that they were actually listening to a CD, suggests that I have (at least partially) succeeded in my aim to recreate something akin to Edison’s tone tests, or at least the Memorex commercials.
Finally, it is suggested that in order to have greater confidence in this report’s findings, it would be necessary to not only make the refinements mentioned in our evaluation but also to scale-up the project, increasing the sample population of the on-line tests and also the number of subjects taking part in the lab tests.'
You can also do your own test on-line: Analogue Hearts, Digital Minds?
Jan
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The anticipation is teased by pre-echo from groove to groove breakthrough. Sometimes its less obvious, but always there
so you're basing your 1st conclusion from one mans hypothesis from a study of "some" people? I'd ask those same ppl, not some DIY folks.
ok sure bet I'd say for "some other" people. Make sure the marketing / sales team gets them into the hands of the hip elite folks 1st. Does it fit in a swag bag?
My best guess is ppl that choose vinyl over other audio mediums do so for artistic and other non-technical consumer based rationales. IMO Consumer markets are driven more by 'the herd' mentalities than by technical /rational ones.
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