Report on the Delrin/SS Kaneta style platter
I have had the Delrin/SS platter Warrjon made for my Kaneta style resin/bentonite plinth for the mk2 for two weeks. The machining is exemplary and I can't thank Warrjon enough for taking on this construction at my request. I repeat Warrjon's comment that the platter he made for me will not fit in a standard mk2 chassis. My plinth has a much larger void around the motor since there is no brake band mechanism. This has permitted a much greater volume to the periphery of the SS part of the platter. The moment of inertia will be increased and the total mass is greater than 11 kg. I have noticed no negative effects on start up time or speed stability. Of course, slowdown time is greatly increased, but using my hand as a friction brake on the centre weight works just fine. Warrjon has been evaluating SS and gunmetal platters that do fit the OEM mk2 chassis and I expect we will hear more from him about them.
To cut to the chase, the new Delrin/SS platter performance is jaw dropping. I started a new thread to post my simple tests to try and get an objective reason to explain what I am hearing.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/366676-lp-mat-platter-interface.html#post6501538
I will continue to update on that thread, as I carry out further measurements.
Here is what I hear:
1. Noise floor. Surface noise has gone way down with no apparent loss of treble or dynamics. Ordinary pressings sound like some of the better audiophile pressings. I have been caught out a few times with the volume way up because the lead in groove is so quiet.
2. Central images are clearer, but extremes of soundstage are not so wide as with the OEM platter. I suspect it is reduction of vertical out-of-phase noise.
3. The low level detail is better than I have ever experienced. Tiny percussion, vocal harmonising overdubs, instrumental fills, all leap out from well known tracks.
Typical reaction from me; WTF!
4. Low bass is weightier. Lovely realism to kick drum and acoustic bass. Some tracks with synthesiser have a disconcerting bass pressure event not experienced previously. There is no apparent bass hangover or boom.
5. Very calm and even presentation of the frequency spectrum. Never a sense that a frequency band has too much emphasis.
My one reservation is that electric bass is less punchier than with the OEM platter. This may be because the lower bass is weightier. IME false punchiness of often caused by resonance.
Because of the 2-part construction of the Delrin/SS platter, I can't definitively say which material component has the most significant effect subjectively. However the impulse rebound height test of a Delrin blank is almost identical to the Delrin/SS. Care needs to be exercised with any conclusions because the platter has a machined surface and the blank does not. The Delrin layer is approx 16 mm thick, machined down from 20 mm. The machined surface is softer than the cast/extruded surface. The complete platter was not made of Delrin/Acetal/POM because of its tendency to warp when machined. The two layers are tightly bolted together and the SS part has a precision mating surface to the motor.
Previously, in my system the Kaneta mk2 with OEM platter would subjectively perform slightly behind the 10R in a custom plinth, with as close to identical ancillary components. With the Delrin/SS platter, the ranking is reversed, with a much bigger gap. I just had to say it! Considering the 10x price differential, this is remarkable. The improvement is across the board with good but non-audiophile pressings.
I have had the Delrin/SS platter Warrjon made for my Kaneta style resin/bentonite plinth for the mk2 for two weeks. The machining is exemplary and I can't thank Warrjon enough for taking on this construction at my request. I repeat Warrjon's comment that the platter he made for me will not fit in a standard mk2 chassis. My plinth has a much larger void around the motor since there is no brake band mechanism. This has permitted a much greater volume to the periphery of the SS part of the platter. The moment of inertia will be increased and the total mass is greater than 11 kg. I have noticed no negative effects on start up time or speed stability. Of course, slowdown time is greatly increased, but using my hand as a friction brake on the centre weight works just fine. Warrjon has been evaluating SS and gunmetal platters that do fit the OEM mk2 chassis and I expect we will hear more from him about them.
To cut to the chase, the new Delrin/SS platter performance is jaw dropping. I started a new thread to post my simple tests to try and get an objective reason to explain what I am hearing.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/366676-lp-mat-platter-interface.html#post6501538
I will continue to update on that thread, as I carry out further measurements.
Here is what I hear:
1. Noise floor. Surface noise has gone way down with no apparent loss of treble or dynamics. Ordinary pressings sound like some of the better audiophile pressings. I have been caught out a few times with the volume way up because the lead in groove is so quiet.
2. Central images are clearer, but extremes of soundstage are not so wide as with the OEM platter. I suspect it is reduction of vertical out-of-phase noise.
3. The low level detail is better than I have ever experienced. Tiny percussion, vocal harmonising overdubs, instrumental fills, all leap out from well known tracks.
Typical reaction from me; WTF!
4. Low bass is weightier. Lovely realism to kick drum and acoustic bass. Some tracks with synthesiser have a disconcerting bass pressure event not experienced previously. There is no apparent bass hangover or boom.
5. Very calm and even presentation of the frequency spectrum. Never a sense that a frequency band has too much emphasis.
My one reservation is that electric bass is less punchier than with the OEM platter. This may be because the lower bass is weightier. IME false punchiness of often caused by resonance.
Because of the 2-part construction of the Delrin/SS platter, I can't definitively say which material component has the most significant effect subjectively. However the impulse rebound height test of a Delrin blank is almost identical to the Delrin/SS. Care needs to be exercised with any conclusions because the platter has a machined surface and the blank does not. The Delrin layer is approx 16 mm thick, machined down from 20 mm. The machined surface is softer than the cast/extruded surface. The complete platter was not made of Delrin/Acetal/POM because of its tendency to warp when machined. The two layers are tightly bolted together and the SS part has a precision mating surface to the motor.
Previously, in my system the Kaneta mk2 with OEM platter would subjectively perform slightly behind the 10R in a custom plinth, with as close to identical ancillary components. With the Delrin/SS platter, the ranking is reversed, with a much bigger gap. I just had to say it! Considering the 10x price differential, this is remarkable. The improvement is across the board with good but non-audiophile pressings.
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Oh man. Maybe a pic or 10 of your system? 
I’m sure it’s already here someplace.. Is that it in the other thread with the SME? But no place like now.
@warrjon—I’ll go ahead and throw out what some others must be wondering.... considered pricing yet on your gunmetal platter creations for us obsessed DIY SP-10ers.? What an upgrade, beautiful work. (Shipping to the states, OMG)
I’m sure it’s already here someplace.. Is that it in the other thread with the SME? But no place like now.@warrjon—I’ll go ahead and throw out what some others must be wondering.... considered pricing yet on your gunmetal platter creations for us obsessed DIY SP-10ers.? What an upgrade, beautiful work. (Shipping to the states, OMG)
I am not doing this as commercial exercise (I am retiring fully next month). The plan is to offer them at a price that will cover my cost to tool up to make them, and give me something to do when I'm not listening to LP's.
I can guarantee the price will be less than a Gunmetal mat. Based on the current blank size the GM/Dynamat version will be about $500US. The larger blank I wouldn't expect to be more than $50 extra.
The blank was slightly too small and I couldn't machine off the contaminated areas under the platter so there are a few ugly voids underneath. A larger blank should fix this.
There will be 2 versions, a GM with Dynamat Xtreme damping underneath and a Delrin/GM/Dynamat version. The Delrin/GM will be taller than the stock platter by about 10mm and may not fit some installations.
All platters will be tested for Flatness, Vertical Runout and balance.
I can guarantee the price will be less than a Gunmetal mat. Based on the current blank size the GM/Dynamat version will be about $500US. The larger blank I wouldn't expect to be more than $50 extra.
The blank was slightly too small and I couldn't machine off the contaminated areas under the platter so there are a few ugly voids underneath. A larger blank should fix this.
There will be 2 versions, a GM with Dynamat Xtreme damping underneath and a Delrin/GM/Dynamat version. The Delrin/GM will be taller than the stock platter by about 10mm and may not fit some installations.
All platters will be tested for Flatness, Vertical Runout and balance.
I can attest to Warrjon's obsession with machining accuracy and tolerances. The SS was a pig to machine and at times I felt some remorse (but only for a second
) at what I put him through. The gunmetal will be much more friendly to machine and Warrjon reports they are subjectively quite close.Oh man. Maybe a pic or 10 of your system?
I use a Wayne Audio SS-2 peripheral ring to firmly hold down the LP to the Delrin/SS platter for maximum benefit.
The speakers are still my reference even though I have built over a dozen pairs since.
3-way active, time aligned, constrained layer construction
They are driven by 2 Emotiva XPA DRA-3. Too many phono stages to mention, but I am really impressed with the Benchmark LA-4 pre-amp I have owned for 6 months.
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pFarrell,
sadly these guys are reinforcing how much I have to learn and how much work I have to do to "play in the game". Fortunately this is a quest so I can put it in perspective.
Now that you have warmed up with the OSMC project, what do you think about post #1707. Impressive.
Thanks to Bon and warrjon for your considerable contributions to the art.
Regards,
Don
sadly these guys are reinforcing how much I have to learn and how much work I have to do to "play in the game". Fortunately this is a quest so I can put it in perspective.
Now that you have warmed up with the OSMC project, what do you think about post #1707. Impressive.
Thanks to Bon and warrjon for your considerable contributions to the art.
Regards,
Don
I have learned so much from this site and happy to play a part. It is definitely all about the journey.
@ Pitrus.
The SME anti-skate only works as intended with the tonearms in this position. Call it British eccentricity but it performs great.
Just a couple of measurements to confirm the startup time is not adversely affected by the increased inertia. The test tracks are from The Ultimate Analogue Test LP.
The first plot shows the vertical 1 kHz track time to stabilisation at 33.33 rpm is 1.8 sec, approximately one revolution. The indicated stable frequency is 1001 Hz. Not too shabby for a total mass of 12 kg (platter+ring+centre weight+LP).
The second plot is the standard lateral 3150 Hz W&F track. Because the spindle hole is off centre, the lateral arm/cartridge resonance at 11 Hz swamps any meaningful measurement but it can indicate the presence of any serious W&F side-bands. There are none obvious but a higher resolution test disc is required. The 11 Hz modulation is easy to see. With a perfectly centred disc, there should be minimal modulation.
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Faneffingtastic. Gets me going all over again—I'll read the whole thread. And yes @donhughes111 the mad skills abound around here. I would put Bon's speaks a couple orders of magnitude beyond the OSMCs, which are quite the project in and of themselves—speaking visually/contruction—since we can't hear them. @Bon you can see what we are on about here (In case you haven't seen this project): Open Source Monkey Box
Jump to the end-ish posts to see my version of mbrennwa and friends design. External crossovers, not active—I made works of art out of mine. Massively fun project and completely transformed my system.
I have an SME IV. I should really try it on the SP-10mkII weird resting angles not-withstanding. For phono pres—Salas's designs—super sweet, bigtime.
Superb work there Bon. I love seeing other peoples set ups. Thanks!
Edit: OMG—you made them TWICE!? Haha. SO GREAT.
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@JP
I have W&F files for the Kaneta Delrin/SS and the 10R for comparison. They are .wav files at 192/24 but are 80 mB each. They are approx. 60 seconds long.
How do I post such large files?
Here are the screen shots of the W&F spectra. First Delrin/SS, second 10R. The arm is the same but different cartridges, Cadenza Bronze and OC9 XSH. They have slightly differing lateral cartridge/tonearm resonances.
I have W&F files for the Kaneta Delrin/SS and the 10R for comparison. They are .wav files at 192/24 but are 80 mB each. They are approx. 60 seconds long.
How do I post such large files?
Here are the screen shots of the W&F spectra. First Delrin/SS, second 10R. The arm is the same but different cartridges, Cadenza Bronze and OC9 XSH. They have slightly differing lateral cartridge/tonearm resonances.
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16/44.1 preferred to see a broader bit of spectra, 20 seconds. If you split to mono and discard the other channel the file will be half the size. Be sure to not convert to mono.
No matter though, as I see exactly what I thought I'd see. Sadly, the Ultimate Analogue Test LP never misses a chance to disappoint. I recommend researching test records with known good W&F tracks. I've had good luck with the Denon series, but there are many others. Sadly none of them available new today. I do have a couple of samples of the Elipson record on the way, so perhaps there's hope.
Regardless, the Delrin/SS sample shows a lot of AM in the recording, and though due to the test record used no conclusions can be drawn, I see indications of very uneven rotation in the polar plot, around 40deg to 95deg.
Image order is Delrin/SS, 10R, and my 10R for reference.
No matter though, as I see exactly what I thought I'd see. Sadly, the Ultimate Analogue Test LP never misses a chance to disappoint. I recommend researching test records with known good W&F tracks. I've had good luck with the Denon series, but there are many others. Sadly none of them available new today. I do have a couple of samples of the Elipson record on the way, so perhaps there's hope.
Regardless, the Delrin/SS sample shows a lot of AM in the recording, and though due to the test record used no conclusions can be drawn, I see indications of very uneven rotation in the polar plot, around 40deg to 95deg.
Image order is Delrin/SS, 10R, and my 10R for reference.
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I have a Phosphor Bronze Platter, but it is not purpose made for a SP10 MKII.
I believe after having it inspected, it can be modified to be used on a SP10 or other DD decks I own.
I also sought guidance from a friend about my intention of adding the Phosphor Bronze Platter in place of my OEM Platter with Tenuto Mat.
I was informed 'that a South African chap (Shaun Vervacht) had carried out tests on Increased Weight to a Platter on a SP10 MKII, and that there were findings that flutter will increase'.
How the effects of flutter will be interpreted will possibly vary between those that can understand the data.
Other effects of using a Heavy Platter were not investigated during the tests.
I believe after having it inspected, it can be modified to be used on a SP10 or other DD decks I own.
I also sought guidance from a friend about my intention of adding the Phosphor Bronze Platter in place of my OEM Platter with Tenuto Mat.
I was informed 'that a South African chap (Shaun Vervacht) had carried out tests on Increased Weight to a Platter on a SP10 MKII, and that there were findings that flutter will increase'.
How the effects of flutter will be interpreted will possibly vary between those that can understand the data.
Other effects of using a Heavy Platter were not investigated during the tests.