After a week of letting the bonding agent cure I finished rounding over all the corners.
Then put it on a scale to see where I am on weight. I really underestimated how much Panzer I cut away. As it sits it weighs 53.5 lbs.
The Stillpoints are about 1 1/2" tall. A little tall, in my opinion, for the size of the plinth. So I made a 1 1/2" dia x 3/8" deep recess for each foot. Looks less like its on stilts.
Just about ready to start priming and filling for paint.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Then put it on a scale to see where I am on weight. I really underestimated how much Panzer I cut away. As it sits it weighs 53.5 lbs.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The Stillpoints are about 1 1/2" tall. A little tall, in my opinion, for the size of the plinth. So I made a 1 1/2" dia x 3/8" deep recess for each foot. Looks less like its on stilts.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Just about ready to start priming and filling for paint.
Enjoyed another day moving forward on the plinth.
It's been reported that Panzer can be drilled and tapped to accept machine screws, similar to aluminum, metal, etc. So first up was to drill and tap 1/4" x 20 openings for the Stillpoints. To facilitate priming both top and bottom of the plinth the same day I needed some temp feet to hold the plinth up off the freshly primed side. I drilled the holes in the drill press and started tapping
With the tap it felt similar to aluminum. I drilled each hole 1" and ran the tap till it bottomed out. I needed to back out the tap and clear the filings once per opening. Generated some heat as the tap was almost to hot to touch when done. I didn't tighten the bolts with all my strength, but way tighter than I could ever get the Stillpoints, just to check. Pretty amazing.
When I install the Stillpoints I will size the length of the screw to penetrate no further than 5/8". This will keep the Stillpoints isolated to the bottom layer of Panzer (recess for the Stillpoints is 3/8").
I block sanded and hand sanded the plinth with 180 grit paper to make sure the primer had something to grab onto.
Then into the booth for priming. I have access through the shop to buy Cromax (formally DuPont) automotive paints at jobber cost. I have had good results with their 2K Urethane Primer and Filler.
Cromax recommends 3 heavy coats with 7-10 mins flash (wait) between coats, so that's what I did.
I debated filling the 1/16" gap between layers prior to spraying the primer, would have saved a couple steps. But I opted to spraying the primer first as I believe it has a higher bonding strength than filler. And I know the filler and the primer bond well to each other.
Excuse the length of the details on all aspects related to the Panzer. But I can find almost no information on working/finishing this material. So good or bad final results, I'm posting my steps here.
So after 3 coats on the bottom I flipped it over and 3 coats on top
It's been reported that Panzer can be drilled and tapped to accept machine screws, similar to aluminum, metal, etc. So first up was to drill and tap 1/4" x 20 openings for the Stillpoints. To facilitate priming both top and bottom of the plinth the same day I needed some temp feet to hold the plinth up off the freshly primed side. I drilled the holes in the drill press and started tapping
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
With the tap it felt similar to aluminum. I drilled each hole 1" and ran the tap till it bottomed out. I needed to back out the tap and clear the filings once per opening. Generated some heat as the tap was almost to hot to touch when done. I didn't tighten the bolts with all my strength, but way tighter than I could ever get the Stillpoints, just to check. Pretty amazing.
When I install the Stillpoints I will size the length of the screw to penetrate no further than 5/8". This will keep the Stillpoints isolated to the bottom layer of Panzer (recess for the Stillpoints is 3/8").
I block sanded and hand sanded the plinth with 180 grit paper to make sure the primer had something to grab onto.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Then into the booth for priming. I have access through the shop to buy Cromax (formally DuPont) automotive paints at jobber cost. I have had good results with their 2K Urethane Primer and Filler.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Cromax recommends 3 heavy coats with 7-10 mins flash (wait) between coats, so that's what I did.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I debated filling the 1/16" gap between layers prior to spraying the primer, would have saved a couple steps. But I opted to spraying the primer first as I believe it has a higher bonding strength than filler. And I know the filler and the primer bond well to each other.
Excuse the length of the details on all aspects related to the Panzer. But I can find almost no information on working/finishing this material. So good or bad final results, I'm posting my steps here.
So after 3 coats on the bottom I flipped it over and 3 coats on top
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Last edited:
Good photos.
I am a bit sceptical about your procedure in two points:
a)I would fill and sand it up to the best of my ability before applying the primer.
I my experience paint will not cover sufficiently the least of discrepancy...
Maybe you should apply another coat or two of primer after filling...
b)You have prepped and cut the top for a specific tonearm.
Usually people tend to change tonearms more frequenty than turntables!
Wouldn't it be better if you had opted for a more flexible "system" on the rear right top section?
Something like a steel/bronze/aluminum plate that would be of sufficient dimensions to accomodate different arms in the future?
You could just change then the top plate and use any arm without having to redo the whole chassis...saving you from a lot of hassle and expense.
Of course all this goes out the window if you're adamant about the specific tonearm...
Anyway keep posting.
I like watching a step by step progress...
I am a bit sceptical about your procedure in two points:
a)I would fill and sand it up to the best of my ability before applying the primer.
I my experience paint will not cover sufficiently the least of discrepancy...
Maybe you should apply another coat or two of primer after filling...
b)You have prepped and cut the top for a specific tonearm.
Usually people tend to change tonearms more frequenty than turntables!
Wouldn't it be better if you had opted for a more flexible "system" on the rear right top section?
Something like a steel/bronze/aluminum plate that would be of sufficient dimensions to accomodate different arms in the future?
You could just change then the top plate and use any arm without having to redo the whole chassis...saving you from a lot of hassle and expense.
Of course all this goes out the window if you're adamant about the specific tonearm...
Anyway keep posting.
I like watching a step by step progress...
Last edited:
Thanks for taking the time to read an comment about my build. Great points!
To your first point. Yes, absolutely I will be following the filler with additional coats of primer. Final paint will not have a consistent sheen/finish if applied over exposed filler.
To you second point. So I am in no way experienced or an expert in audio component construction. But one thing I have learned in my short time in this hobby is that everything is a compromise.
My opinion is that having a removable armboards is good idea if you think you will want to experiment with different arms, but my opinion is that you also insert another variable that could effect sound by having the bolt on armboard. So the compromise. I don't yet have enough listening experience to where I could appreciate the difference between arms in the price range of the 312S. The plinth design from day one was built around the 312S. I wanted the smallest footprint, hard to do with a 12" arm. The platter is pushed about as far into one corner with the arm pushed into the opposite corner as possible. I also like that the arm will be bolted directly to the top Panzer layer, which weighs about 13 lbs, and is isolated from the 2nd layer of Panzer that the motor is bolted to.
To my knowledge, this is all new experimental territory, in a couple weeks I should be done and listening tests can begin!
Tonight, after two days cure, I block sanded the primer and spread a coat of filler on the 3 layer joints. By the data sheets, I could have sanded and spread filler on the primer after 90 mins on Saturday. I am really concerned about the 3 horizontal joints showing up in the finish down the road, so I'm waiting extra time between steps.
The Panzer is pretty "flat". With the 3 heavy coats of primer I was able to block sand, 180 grit, the top perfectly without sanding through. The tooling in the shop is pretty good, I cut and laid up all 4 pieces of the Panzer and could almost sand the sides "flat" without sand through. So far I only have positive comments about the Panzer, no issues at all so far. I will say that that the size and weight ratio is shocking. Everyone at the shop is utterly amazed that something this size can weigh so much!
After sanding I ran a piece of masking tape around the top and bottom edge just beyond the joints. This serves to save on sanding overflow filler and the extra thickness of the tape acts as a guide to a little extra filler to sand out to accommodate shrinkage. For filler I'm using Evercoat brand Gold Rage filler.
If I did a good job on spreading the filler, it should sand "flat" and be ready for another 3 coats of primer on the edge. The top sanded well, so I will just spray one more coat to sand at 380 grit this time.
The Panzer is pretty "flat". With the 3 heavy coats of primer I was able to block sand, 180 grit, the top perfectly without sanding through. The tooling in the shop is pretty good, I cut and laid up all 4 pieces of the Panzer and could almost sand the sides "flat" without sand through. So far I only have positive comments about the Panzer, no issues at all so far. I will say that that the size and weight ratio is shocking. Everyone at the shop is utterly amazed that something this size can weigh so much!
After sanding I ran a piece of masking tape around the top and bottom edge just beyond the joints. This serves to save on sanding overflow filler and the extra thickness of the tape acts as a guide to a little extra filler to sand out to accommodate shrinkage. For filler I'm using Evercoat brand Gold Rage filler.
If I did a good job on spreading the filler, it should sand "flat" and be ready for another 3 coats of primer on the edge. The top sanded well, so I will just spray one more coat to sand at 380 grit this time.
I sanded primer, spread a little filler, sanded, spread a little more filler, and then today spayed another 3 coats of primer. I can still see a couple minor defects, so another round of sanding, filler and primer to come.
But getting closer. I'm taking more time between steps to minimize filler and primer shrinkage in the future. Hopefully paint Saturday.
Looking at it its hard to imagine how it can weigh over 50lbs.
But getting closer. I'm taking more time between steps to minimize filler and primer shrinkage in the future. Hopefully paint Saturday.
Looking at it its hard to imagine how it can weigh over 50lbs.
Sheen is still TBD. As I sprayed the "base" today the color is set.
A couple of days ago I set the 10 lb iron drain. It's set in the same material I have between layers. I used some temporary shims to hold the iron off the upper layer by 1/8" and only a small amount around the the bearing opening. Then filled the perimeter, which is about 5/16" all around.
Then block sanded the plinth one last round (well for this stage anyway). 180, then 360, then 600. FYI, this step was 4 hours long as a reference.
I'm always trying something new, the finish I'm using is pretty unique. It's a resin with a catalyst and powdered metal, called Plate-All.
The finish is non-conductive and non-galvanic. Sprays out a little thick and rougher than typical paint. Due to the size of the partials I used the gun we use for primer vs the the finish gun.
Next week I'll start the metal polishing steps. Playing around with a couple samples we sprayed out, you would think your actually polishing solid metal, not painted wood!
This material can be clear coated after polishing. But I haven't decided where I'll take it from here yet.
The powder I picked is Stainless Steel, and the color as its sprayed out doesn't look anything like what it does after sanding, buffing, etc. looks like real stainless.
A couple of days ago I set the 10 lb iron drain. It's set in the same material I have between layers. I used some temporary shims to hold the iron off the upper layer by 1/8" and only a small amount around the the bearing opening. Then filled the perimeter, which is about 5/16" all around.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Then block sanded the plinth one last round (well for this stage anyway). 180, then 360, then 600. FYI, this step was 4 hours long as a reference.
I'm always trying something new, the finish I'm using is pretty unique. It's a resin with a catalyst and powdered metal, called Plate-All.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The finish is non-conductive and non-galvanic. Sprays out a little thick and rougher than typical paint. Due to the size of the partials I used the gun we use for primer vs the the finish gun.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Next week I'll start the metal polishing steps. Playing around with a couple samples we sprayed out, you would think your actually polishing solid metal, not painted wood!
This material can be clear coated after polishing. But I haven't decided where I'll take it from here yet.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The powder I picked is Stainless Steel, and the color as its sprayed out doesn't look anything like what it does after sanding, buffing, etc. looks like real stainless.
Coasttocoast,
This review of the Artisan Fidelity Technics SP10MK iii turntable is for you.
Artisan Fidelity Owners - Sources - Analog • US Audio Mart
This review of the Artisan Fidelity Technics SP10MK iii turntable is for you.
Artisan Fidelity Owners - Sources - Analog • US Audio Mart
off-topic a bit but market price on SP-10 various models?
I started reading this today and read it to the end. I am looking for a new project that will better my Rega RP-40 and Linn LP12 and this seems to be the project to do so. That said, I have done cursory research and cannot seem to find the going price for any of the SP-10 variants. Are there versions I should stay away from while looking? eBay yielded no results aside from unsold MKIIs for about $1k. What is market price and where other than eBay would you recommend I look? I will post a wanted listing here and other places like AudiogoN and the like but would like to avoid eBay if I can. Looking for a working unit ready for upgrades and mods.
Thank you,
Darren
I started reading this today and read it to the end. I am looking for a new project that will better my Rega RP-40 and Linn LP12 and this seems to be the project to do so. That said, I have done cursory research and cannot seem to find the going price for any of the SP-10 variants. Are there versions I should stay away from while looking? eBay yielded no results aside from unsold MKIIs for about $1k. What is market price and where other than eBay would you recommend I look? I will post a wanted listing here and other places like AudiogoN and the like but would like to avoid eBay if I can. Looking for a working unit ready for upgrades and mods.
Thank you,
Darren
Go for the MkII version..earlier ones are not so good and the MKIII is as rare as hens' teeth and very very expensive; it is a much better machine though. The MKII-P (broadcast version may well have users ergonomic changes etc. The ex-BBC ones certainly have. They also are often heavily used, but well serviced. The BBC ones were pulled out of general use back in the late 1980s-90s so may need a lot of care to buy wisely.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Ebay is where you are going to find them...
An audio sales page will have the possible advantage of one that's at least tested or has been operating recently. These things are tanks and quite easy to work on, so if you are reasonably handy, you should have an easy time of it.
Variants - there are essentially 4; The SP-10, The MkII, The MkIIa, and the MkIII.
The SP-10 is non-quartz. Still a fantastic motor and built beautifully, but a generation previous in motor control.
The MkII and MkIIa are the Quartz versions, and the most common. The difference between the two is changing the motor control from mostly discrete to mostly IC. The MkIIa needs a bit more current in the logic supply, and therefore has a slightly different PSU, the SH-10E. The important bits of the -II and -IIa are essentially identical.
The MkIII is very different, with a different motor and PSU. They are considered to be the pinnacle of Japanese Turntable art and are priced accordingly. Complete units trade for $10,000-16,000USD. Inoperative, incomplete ones cost more than a good MkII.
Look for a good MkII or -IIa. Spend whatever you are comfortable with, as you will most likely be able to sell it for whatever you put into it, or more.
If you want a turn-key experience, Dave Cawley sells complete refurbished units.
An audio sales page will have the possible advantage of one that's at least tested or has been operating recently. These things are tanks and quite easy to work on, so if you are reasonably handy, you should have an easy time of it.
Variants - there are essentially 4; The SP-10, The MkII, The MkIIa, and the MkIII.
The SP-10 is non-quartz. Still a fantastic motor and built beautifully, but a generation previous in motor control.
The MkII and MkIIa are the Quartz versions, and the most common. The difference between the two is changing the motor control from mostly discrete to mostly IC. The MkIIa needs a bit more current in the logic supply, and therefore has a slightly different PSU, the SH-10E. The important bits of the -II and -IIa are essentially identical.
The MkIII is very different, with a different motor and PSU. They are considered to be the pinnacle of Japanese Turntable art and are priced accordingly. Complete units trade for $10,000-16,000USD. Inoperative, incomplete ones cost more than a good MkII.
Look for a good MkII or -IIa. Spend whatever you are comfortable with, as you will most likely be able to sell it for whatever you put into it, or more.
If you want a turn-key experience, Dave Cawley sells complete refurbished units.
