A naked DL103 with a more refined stylus (SFL etc.) certainly is a different animal
and will provide satisfying listening.
On the other hand, if you start modding and retipping, why not just get a worn EMT,
Troika or Ortofon and retip that one? While the modded Denon without any question
is still an improvement, the others are the bigger step at similar cost.
and will provide satisfying listening.
On the other hand, if you start modding and retipping, why not just get a worn EMT,
Troika or Ortofon and retip that one? While the modded Denon without any question
is still an improvement, the others are the bigger step at similar cost.
Hi,
Whatever. I'm not a fan of the DL103 but appreciate what is does
well, which is IMO old records with treble lift and even predistorted
records (bad idea that didn't last long) for a typical spherical tip.
Its a broadcast (radio) cartridge and ideal for playing singles.
Even so though spherical it still has a high quality nude tip.
Not the thing for the lastest vinyl, fine for an extensive old
record collection, played with a relatively old chunky arm.
rgds, sreten.
Whatever. I'm not a fan of the DL103 but appreciate what is does
well, which is IMO old records with treble lift and even predistorted
records (bad idea that didn't last long) for a typical spherical tip.
Its a broadcast (radio) cartridge and ideal for playing singles.
Even so though spherical it still has a high quality nude tip.
Not the thing for the lastest vinyl, fine for an extensive old
record collection, played with a relatively old chunky arm.
rgds, sreten.
Hi,
No retipping service domestically then, I assume?
While I have no idea how much is being charged for this nowadays it used to be a reasonable thing to do once you own a cart worth a few thousand $.
In the old country you have vdH, Fritz Giger and no doubt some others.
When you hold a large record collection it is economically and sonically worthwhile to invest in a record cleaning machine and tip cleaning fluids such as Last etc.
By doing so the cart's tip literally lasts much, much longer.
In general, the better the tip the longer they last.
That said, I would not go through the expense of having a DL103 retipped.
Quite frankly, the mere fact that they respond so well to removing the housing etc. shows that this is not such a great cart anyhow.
Fine for starters but after that you better move on IMHO.
Another thing to remember when sending in a cart for retipping is that there's little point in doing so if there's a chance of the suspension dying soon after.
That's what I like so much about the Jan Allaerts cartridges. They're probably among the best in the world.
They're expensive but they incorporate no materials that won't last a lifetime (except for the tip that is).
Rolls Royces never came cheap either but they are cheap in the long run....
Ciao,
No retipping service domestically then, I assume?
While I have no idea how much is being charged for this nowadays it used to be a reasonable thing to do once you own a cart worth a few thousand $.
In the old country you have vdH, Fritz Giger and no doubt some others.
When you hold a large record collection it is economically and sonically worthwhile to invest in a record cleaning machine and tip cleaning fluids such as Last etc.
By doing so the cart's tip literally lasts much, much longer.
In general, the better the tip the longer they last.
That said, I would not go through the expense of having a DL103 retipped.
Quite frankly, the mere fact that they respond so well to removing the housing etc. shows that this is not such a great cart anyhow.
Fine for starters but after that you better move on IMHO.
Another thing to remember when sending in a cart for retipping is that there's little point in doing so if there's a chance of the suspension dying soon after.
That's what I like so much about the Jan Allaerts cartridges. They're probably among the best in the world.
They're expensive but they incorporate no materials that won't last a lifetime (except for the tip that is).
Rolls Royces never came cheap either but they are cheap in the long run....
Ciao,
Last edited:
hi
can you point me on to how change the body on a dl103 and which body do you prefer to use? im really interested with this as the dl 103 has been my only analog source since, well, since ever besides cheap mm carts...
thanks!
can you point me on to how change the body on a dl103 and which body do you prefer to use? im really interested with this as the dl 103 has been my only analog source since, well, since ever besides cheap mm carts...
thanks!
Have a look at this thread from a few years ago:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/117395-has-anyone-taken-body-off-denon-dl103.html
Much of the ground covered in this thread is also there.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/117395-has-anyone-taken-body-off-denon-dl103.html
Much of the ground covered in this thread is also there.
Here is my DL103R on RB300 playing the HFNRR Test Disc II full band pink noise stereo track. Strong brilliance range lift. Good overload margin in the phono stage should be allowed for ticks and pops not to stick out much.
Attachments
Plus an older take on Telarc Omnidisc and different arm + software. Its useful compliance number is 14cu for any arm mass suitability predictions. That I calculated back from the fundamental resonance on FFT on known moving mass arm, digital scale weighted cart bolts and nuts, not trusting the HFNRR record announcements.
For anyone maybe using it, keep in mind they deviate as following:
25 Hz = 24.4 Hz
23 Hz = 21.6 Hz
21 Hz = 19.6 Hz
19 Hz = 17.2 Hz
17 Hz = 15.7 Hz
15 Hz = 14.5 Hz
13 Hz = 11.1 Hz
11 Hz = 10.8 Hz
9 Hz = 8.7 Hz
7 Hz = 5.7 Hz
The 300Hz bias tones are 303 Hz in reality.
For anyone maybe using it, keep in mind they deviate as following:
25 Hz = 24.4 Hz
23 Hz = 21.6 Hz
21 Hz = 19.6 Hz
19 Hz = 17.2 Hz
17 Hz = 15.7 Hz
15 Hz = 14.5 Hz
13 Hz = 11.1 Hz
11 Hz = 10.8 Hz
9 Hz = 8.7 Hz
7 Hz = 5.7 Hz
The 300Hz bias tones are 303 Hz in reality.
Attachments
Hi,
Well YMMV but FR doesn't make any difference to the effect
of EQ and predistortion applied to records, they are related
to the predictable losses and distortion of a spherical tip
towards the end of a record, so my observations stand.
Modern records, with none of the above assuming
advanced tips, with spherical tips will progressively
show treble loss and distortion* towards the end.
rgds, sreten.
* IMO the distortion is irrelevant, being low order,
but many older records compensate treble loss,
which will then sound bright with advanced tips.
Well YMMV but FR doesn't make any difference to the effect
of EQ and predistortion applied to records, they are related
to the predictable losses and distortion of a spherical tip
towards the end of a record, so my observations stand.
Modern records, with none of the above assuming
advanced tips, with spherical tips will progressively
show treble loss and distortion* towards the end.
rgds, sreten.
* IMO the distortion is irrelevant, being low order,
but many older records compensate treble loss,
which will then sound bright with advanced tips.
Last edited:
I'm assuming that rising response above 10kHz is a symptom of a relatively low frequency ultrasonic resonance, the better MCs place this higher and damp it better.
In the past I have seen sweeps of retipped DL-103 with much stronger resonances starting in the range of 10kHz. (No I don't have any of the offending sweeps to offer here.) One wonders if the old age of the typical user and the rising response in the HF region might be synergistic.. lol (I'm 56 FYI
)
To Sreten's point I did not hear a drop in HF response (unfortunately) towards the end of a side but I did hear a rather significant increase in tracing distortion. Note that I live in the land of 12" arms so this would presumably be much worse with a 9" or 10" arm. There is a reason the world moved on to elliptical and line contact styli.. Interesting comment on the pre-distorted inner grooves (dynagroove in RCA parlance) I still prefer them played back with anything but a spherical stylus..
In the past I have seen sweeps of retipped DL-103 with much stronger resonances starting in the range of 10kHz. (No I don't have any of the offending sweeps to offer here.) One wonders if the old age of the typical user and the rising response in the HF region might be synergistic.. lol (I'm 56 FYI
)To Sreten's point I did not hear a drop in HF response (unfortunately) towards the end of a side but I did hear a rather significant increase in tracing distortion. Note that I live in the land of 12" arms so this would presumably be much worse with a 9" or 10" arm. There is a reason the world moved on to elliptical and line contact styli.. Interesting comment on the pre-distorted inner grooves (dynagroove in RCA parlance) I still prefer them played back with anything but a spherical stylus..
Naked sounds better ( stock body) then you have to deal with the dust.
@kevin.
I had setup a DL110 last week for a friend , must be the best overall cart for a 100 beans i have ever heard, low surface noise and a good tracker ,i dont care for the sound of dyna groove records....
Not a fan of Dynagroove either, but some recordings of performances I like were Dynagroove so I live with them. Sometimes RR or Quality Pressings reissues those recordings not in Dynagroove so I may go looking for newer pressings, that of course presupposes that the masters have not deteriorated seriously in the mean time.
The 110 has a good reputation for sure.
The 110 has a good reputation for sure.
The 103, since it has a basis for modding, and people are successfully using them with ittok lvII (my arm), will be in the running as replacement when my Dynavector 17d2 goes away. Low output, 100 ohm loading, pretty good match so I should get away with minimal other changes. Nothing of substance to add, besides that it might mate well where people are enjoying D2s.
When Thorsten L. was here he made a good argument for there being a lot more records cut for spherical tip than anyone wants to admit. The only careful lab test I could find was by Shure 4% distortion for eliptical and 6% for spherical on fresh test LP's. I'm not excited, and have never seen any tip geometry difference of note in my own tests. The guy that claims .01% for perfectly aligned line contact stylus is smoking something.
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