how did you link those cones to the torque tube on the LC-002?
hello i linked them also with the plastic links made out of q-tips.they are quite solid light weight and available....
i also once wound some feedback coils around the q-tips. but forget feedback construction on hotmelt- qtips- speaker constructions. those feedback tests where a desaster.
use a good ferrofluidic damped hf tweeter. thats probabbly the best approach. they have a strong dampened resonance. so with a little pre-eq and half speed technique you should get fat sound.
send me some pictures of your stuff. would be nice to see
flo
hello i linked them also with the plastic links made out of q-tips.they are quite solid light weight and available....
i also once wound some feedback coils around the q-tips. but forget feedback construction on hotmelt- qtips- speaker constructions. those feedback tests where a desaster.
use a good ferrofluidic damped hf tweeter. thats probabbly the best approach. they have a strong dampened resonance. so with a little pre-eq and half speed technique you should get fat sound.
send me some pictures of your stuff. would be nice to see
flo
Hello, again flo!
It is very generous of you to share this information, considering that this is also your own engineering/business area, so thanks. What is a q-tip?
I will send/post some pics as soon as I get some stuff done!
ferrofluidic tweeters... is there an easy way to tell?
BTW, your plastic drinking cup/knife blade recorder was one of the first images I saw when I first started looking for ideas for DIY cutting!
I'll be starting off my experiments with a technics 1210, with your modification for extra torque, so to get as close as I can to half speed, I'll have to cut at -8% pitch on 33.33rpm, and adjust the speed of the source material, so that it will play at the correct speed at 45rpm. Its going to be hard to see if the platter is turning at a constant velocity though!
bye, from Steve
It is very generous of you to share this information, considering that this is also your own engineering/business area, so thanks. What is a q-tip?
I will send/post some pics as soon as I get some stuff done!
ferrofluidic tweeters... is there an easy way to tell?
BTW, your plastic drinking cup/knife blade recorder was one of the first images I saw when I first started looking for ideas for DIY cutting!
I'll be starting off my experiments with a technics 1210, with your modification for extra torque, so to get as close as I can to half speed, I'll have to cut at -8% pitch on 33.33rpm, and adjust the speed of the source material, so that it will play at the correct speed at 45rpm. Its going to be hard to see if the platter is turning at a constant velocity though!
bye, from Steve
q-tip. hmm the thing you use for cleaning your ears to hear hifi again.
normally a 1mm plastictube with cotton on both ends. cut the ends away and you have nice links. 200 links for a dollar. no to bad for diy tests.
too bad i cant find the picture anymore.would make things clearer.
ferrofluidic tweeters. i always check on loudspeaker catalogs. in europe there is intertechnic, monacor or even conrad. i ask normally for tweeters not in the catalogue anymore. or for surplus. so i get them cheap. i fried a lot of those when i made the tests..also its sometimes not easy to remove the protection grill.
ferrofluid tweeters are also good because resonance freq. is dampened. and the ferrofluid removes the heat better from the coils.
halfspeed 45/33 is not too bad. 20k becomes 14.67 khz. thats pretty ok.
but use the lock position not the -8 pitch....
normally a 1mm plastictube with cotton on both ends. cut the ends away and you have nice links. 200 links for a dollar. no to bad for diy tests.
too bad i cant find the picture anymore.would make things clearer.
ferrofluidic tweeters. i always check on loudspeaker catalogs. in europe there is intertechnic, monacor or even conrad. i ask normally for tweeters not in the catalogue anymore. or for surplus. so i get them cheap. i fried a lot of those when i made the tests..also its sometimes not easy to remove the protection grill.
ferrofluid tweeters are also good because resonance freq. is dampened. and the ferrofluid removes the heat better from the coils.
halfspeed 45/33 is not too bad. 20k becomes 14.67 khz. thats pretty ok.
but use the lock position not the -8 pitch....
I thought that's what a q-tip was, but I wasn't sure! I also thought it might mean the end of a pool/snooker stick!
So Flo, how did you attach the plastic tubes between the cones and the torque tube?
I have read that the links are usually metal, silver soldered between the coils and the torque tube, but that sounds inflexible to me, like the joint may fracture?
thanks, from Steve
So Flo, how did you attach the plastic tubes between the cones and the torque tube?
I have read that the links are usually metal, silver soldered between the coils and the torque tube, but that sounds inflexible to me, like the joint may fracture?
thanks, from Steve
report on experiments...
I made a makeshift mono cutterhead out of a 5" Kenwood singlecone full range speaker (because it was free).
I made a reverse RIAA filter
I made a cutting stylus out of tungsten carbide (a diamond, or sapphire, or ruby stylus is too expensive for me to do experiments with, at the moment!)
The stylus was heated, with a nichrome coil
I cut some music into a blank vinyl disc (the blank side of a 12" white label)
results: horrible 'sssss' sound, which I think was caused by chatter from the cutting stylus. Tungsten Carbide is very hard to sharpen, so applying more clearance angle to cutting surface is a couple hours work, using a silicon carbide grinding wheel, then another hour honing it on a honing stone! I reduced the length of the shank of the stylus as much as possible, but the 'sssss' is still there. the frequency response was about 10kHz, at a guess.
Big question for those in the know.... If I use a proper dubplate blank, will the 'sssss' sound go away?
all in all, it has been fun!
I made a makeshift mono cutterhead out of a 5" Kenwood singlecone full range speaker (because it was free).
I made a reverse RIAA filter
I made a cutting stylus out of tungsten carbide (a diamond, or sapphire, or ruby stylus is too expensive for me to do experiments with, at the moment!)
The stylus was heated, with a nichrome coil
I cut some music into a blank vinyl disc (the blank side of a 12" white label)
results: horrible 'sssss' sound, which I think was caused by chatter from the cutting stylus. Tungsten Carbide is very hard to sharpen, so applying more clearance angle to cutting surface is a couple hours work, using a silicon carbide grinding wheel, then another hour honing it on a honing stone! I reduced the length of the shank of the stylus as much as possible, but the 'sssss' is still there. the frequency response was about 10kHz, at a guess.
Big question for those in the know.... If I use a proper dubplate blank, will the 'sssss' sound go away?
all in all, it has been fun!
hi loonatron,
sounds nice so far. if possible please post a picture, would be nice to see or hear how your head sounds like.
i have a lot of styli i can give ou for free, most of them are used but ok for dubs and experiments.
i think dubplates are not easy to get in oz, i will send some records to a friend of mine in sydney soon, maybe i can arrange something
greetings
andreas
sounds nice so far. if possible please post a picture, would be nice to see or hear how your head sounds like.
i have a lot of styli i can give ou for free, most of them are used but ok for dubs and experiments.
i think dubplates are not easy to get in oz, i will send some records to a friend of mine in sydney soon, maybe i can arrange something
greetings
andreas
Hey Andreas,
I also replied to your email! For everyone else, I think that the reason for the chatter was that the cutting speed was too high. I will have to find a way to slow down my Technics 1210 to half speed, I guess. Unless the chatter was (quite possibly) due to trying to cut material that was too hard. Or both. (yes both! ) I did another cut near the centre of the record, where due to the slower surface speed, the chatter/hiss was a lot quiter!
how do you post pictures/sounds on this forum... Do you need to supply your own webspace for this? I'd better find some free webspace somewhere!
I also replied to your email! For everyone else, I think that the reason for the chatter was that the cutting speed was too high. I will have to find a way to slow down my Technics 1210 to half speed, I guess. Unless the chatter was (quite possibly) due to trying to cut material that was too hard. Or both. (yes both!
) I did another cut near the centre of the record, where due to the slower surface speed, the chatter/hiss was a lot quiter!how do you post pictures/sounds on this forum... Do you need to supply your own webspace for this? I'd better find some free webspace somewhere!
stylus, noise and material
hello
congratulation....at least it reroduces some sound......post some pictures would be great..
a few things. DIY is nice. but i think there are a few things you should get as is.
1 stylus. you would never get the quality of a proper polished stylus.so if you can take the used styluses from andreas.would be perfect. if not buy some new ones. 65$ each. but the qulaity of sound will increase dramatically..
2. material. forget in a first step to cut into vinyl. i did that in the beginning... you loose stylus after stylus and sound will be bad. always. best is regular dubplate material. but thats kind of expensive for experiments. another thing are thin PE-sheets or..dont laugh...X-Ray films. ask at a hospital. sometimes they are happy to clear out their archives...normally they throw them away...not too bad. still noisy but better than vinyl.
maybe you find other materials (let us know whats good)..but dont use vinyl. its too hard. and the stylus lasts only for minutes. max. a few hours. better would be diamond stylus. but they are expensive and extremly fragile.
3. noise. check for the propper cutting angle. big difference in sound....but if you use accetate laquer and original stylus sound should be great. if there is already noise in the unmodulated groove dont go further try to make unmodulated grooves without noise and then measure frequency range again...big surprise...
hello
congratulation....at least it reroduces some sound......post some pictures would be great..
a few things. DIY is nice. but i think there are a few things you should get as is.
1 stylus. you would never get the quality of a proper polished stylus.so if you can take the used styluses from andreas.would be perfect. if not buy some new ones. 65$ each. but the qulaity of sound will increase dramatically..
2. material. forget in a first step to cut into vinyl. i did that in the beginning... you loose stylus after stylus and sound will be bad. always. best is regular dubplate material. but thats kind of expensive for experiments. another thing are thin PE-sheets or..dont laugh...X-Ray films. ask at a hospital. sometimes they are happy to clear out their archives...normally they throw them away...not too bad. still noisy but better than vinyl.
maybe you find other materials (let us know whats good)..but dont use vinyl. its too hard. and the stylus lasts only for minutes. max. a few hours. better would be diamond stylus. but they are expensive and extremly fragile.
3. noise. check for the propper cutting angle. big difference in sound....but if you use accetate laquer and original stylus sound should be great. if there is already noise in the unmodulated groove dont go further try to make unmodulated grooves without noise and then measure frequency range again...big surprise...
Hey Flo,
always interesting to read your ideas and suggestions, so thanks
I'll post photos as soon as I borrow a digital camera, and figure out how to get pictures on here! (haven't looked into it yet)
see ya, from Steve
always interesting to read your ideas and suggestions, so thanks
heh heh! I agree! even at 16rpm mastering it sounds terrible!
Polyethylene?
I look forward to that moment!
I'll post photos as soon as I borrow a digital camera, and figure out how to get pictures on here! (haven't looked into it yet)
see ya, from Steve
Tried cheap plastic sheets today, bought from an art supply shop. I think they are acetate, but not sure. (the staff didn't know what it was, they just said "its thick plastic" ... not too helpful!)
This material works so much better than vinyl for experiments! Thanks for the hints VF!
I will try cutting some of my own music shortly. I don't want to post music samples on here that are not mine, for obvious reasons. (all the experiments done with my own material have been on vinyl discs, not acetate yet)
Well, all the experiments so far were by holding my 'cutterhead' by hand, to cut the grooves... dodgy, yes, but I was so eager to just try it! Now I need to start building a proper disc cutting lathe, and look forward to some real results. (this may take a while!) I will build a lathe with fixed pitch feed, and some other 'proper' essential components to expect a reasonable result.
Well, thanks to all those who have given me encouragement and advice so far. I really appreciate it, especially as some of you are professionals, sharing your knowledge with me
This material works so much better than vinyl for experiments! Thanks for the hints VF!
I will try cutting some of my own music shortly. I don't want to post music samples on here that are not mine, for obvious reasons. (all the experiments done with my own material have been on vinyl discs, not acetate yet)
Well, all the experiments so far were by holding my 'cutterhead' by hand, to cut the grooves... dodgy, yes, but I was so eager to just try it! Now I need to start building a proper disc cutting lathe, and look forward to some real results. (this may take a while!) I will build a lathe with fixed pitch feed, and some other 'proper' essential components to expect a reasonable result.
Well, thanks to all those who have given me encouragement and advice so far. I really appreciate it, especially as some of you are professionals, sharing your knowledge with me
cutterhead transducers
Hi. I'm new here, but I see the topic is very much interesting for me.
I'm making some tests of the cutterhead I made myself with piezoelectric transducers. I haven't seen any like this before, so is it at least worth trying to use piezoelectrics in cutterhead?
I'm currently redesigning the amplifier for driving piezoelectrics, maybe there is someone who has some experience with this problem?
I made some tests using just normal amplifier. I used the playback stylus and plates covered with gelatine(just for tests). It sounds terrible, of course, but until I have "real" stylus on vinyl I can't say if it is the problem of material and stylus or the cutterhead.
I'll be happy to see what you think about this idea.
Frendliest regards, Peter
Hi. I'm new here, but I see the topic is very much interesting for me.
I'm making some tests of the cutterhead I made myself with piezoelectric transducers. I haven't seen any like this before, so is it at least worth trying to use piezoelectrics in cutterhead?
I'm currently redesigning the amplifier for driving piezoelectrics, maybe there is someone who has some experience with this problem?
I made some tests using just normal amplifier. I used the playback stylus and plates covered with gelatine(just for tests). It sounds terrible, of course, but until I have "real" stylus on vinyl I can't say if it is the problem of material and stylus or the cutterhead.
I'll be happy to see what you think about this idea.
Frendliest regards, Peter
Hi there.
What gave you the idea of using piezo's? Trying to emulate the old 'crystal' cutterheads? These are way out of fashion now! The most popular 'modern' cutterheads are all moving coil type. I think this is the best bet. But I'm not going to try to stop you, if that's what you really want to try.
Did you do your experiments on a disc-cutting lathe?
good luck!
What gave you the idea of using piezo's? Trying to emulate the old 'crystal' cutterheads? These are way out of fashion now! The most popular 'modern' cutterheads are all moving coil type. I think this is the best bet. But I'm not going to try to stop you, if that's what you really want to try.
Did you do your experiments on a disc-cutting lathe?
good luck!
Thanks for reply!
Yes, that's what I was affraid of - that the idea to use piezoceramisc may not be good.
The idea just come to me when I was analyzing the geommetry of the coil movement on its suspension. I just thought that when it moves back and forth its position in the magnetic field changes - it gets closer to the magnet. I thougth that this can cause some distortions. That's why I try to use piezoceramic transducer - it is simply a plate, so it doesn't need any additional suspension like coil needs and tha point where tha links are attached moves only along the axis of the plate.
But piezo needs different amplifier than coils and it also has some other problems.
If it will not work good I'll give this idea up, because I see that trying to make things simple I make them more complicated.
I didn't use 'real' lathe. I just made use of some slideways from an old ploter. Works fine for tests.
But the problem is that I don't have any stylus for tests. The one I use is just playback stylus. I thougth that if I ude it on something soft it will work until I get some real stylus, but it doesn't.
Thanks again,
Peter
Yes, that's what I was affraid of - that the idea to use piezoceramisc may not be good.
The idea just come to me when I was analyzing the geommetry of the coil movement on its suspension. I just thought that when it moves back and forth its position in the magnetic field changes - it gets closer to the magnet. I thougth that this can cause some distortions. That's why I try to use piezoceramic transducer - it is simply a plate, so it doesn't need any additional suspension like coil needs and tha point where tha links are attached moves only along the axis of the plate.
But piezo needs different amplifier than coils and it also has some other problems.
If it will not work good I'll give this idea up, because I see that trying to make things simple I make them more complicated.
I didn't use 'real' lathe. I just made use of some slideways from an old ploter. Works fine for tests.
But the problem is that I don't have any stylus for tests. The one I use is just playback stylus. I thougth that if I ude it on something soft it will work until I get some real stylus, but it doesn't.
Thanks again,
Peter
Quote:
"...and the point where the links are attached moves only along the axis of the plate... "
Peter,
Two points here:
1. Given the fact that a piezo crystal vibrates in more than one mode, man hardly can assume that a piezo plate vibrates only along the axis of the plate. In fact this "only" is achieved (hardly),strictly through the restricting action of piezo plate mounting.
Even in the case of a piezo plate that is cut at an angle favoring longitudinal vibrations across the plate thickness, piezo dynamics is hard to analyse. It is even harder to achieve a given pure vibration (if quality is the goal).
2. Amps for piezo drive need have a high voltage out (100-300V) and a high output impedance. Normal audio amps won't do.
Regards
George
"...and the point where the links are attached moves only along the axis of the plate... "
Peter,
Two points here:
1. Given the fact that a piezo crystal vibrates in more than one mode, man hardly can assume that a piezo plate vibrates only along the axis of the plate. In fact this "only" is achieved (hardly),strictly through the restricting action of piezo plate mounting.
Even in the case of a piezo plate that is cut at an angle favoring longitudinal vibrations across the plate thickness, piezo dynamics is hard to analyse. It is even harder to achieve a given pure vibration (if quality is the goal).
2. Amps for piezo drive need have a high voltage out (100-300V) and a high output impedance. Normal audio amps won't do.
Regards
George
If you can find it... (the college I used to go to had it in their library.)
'The Audio Cyclopedia'
Has very good info. There have been several editions, I think the best one was early 70's, the later versions have very little info. (digital was taking over)
also look on the Aardvark mastering website for good cutterhead dissassembly photos!
...Steve
'The Audio Cyclopedia'
Has very good info. There have been several editions, I think the best one was early 70's, the later versions have very little info. (digital was taking over)
also look on the Aardvark mastering website for good cutterhead dissassembly photos!
...Steve
Terfenol-D
It would be interesting to see what this stuff could do in a cutterhead:
Terfenol-D.
"Magnetic domains in the crystal rotate when a magnetic field is applied, providing proportional, positive and repeatable expansion in microseconds."
Cody
It would be interesting to see what this stuff could do in a cutterhead:
Terfenol-D.
"Magnetic domains in the crystal rotate when a magnetic field is applied, providing proportional, positive and repeatable expansion in microseconds."
Cody
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