Ortofon VMS20/30

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I have had an Ortofon VMS30 (formerly a 20E with an upgraded stylus) for over 30 years now and it has done sterling service in a variety of arms. Latterly it was fitted to a Dual CS505-2 in which it sounded pretty good. I have just bought a 505-4 which I am going to refurbish and I am wondering what to do about a cartridge. Is this Ortofon really a good match for the Dual? I am going to get the cartridge and stylus professionally checked over but after that I have a couple of options. a) If it is ok, keep it, perhaps replacing the stylus if required or b) buy another cartridge more suited to the Dual. The question is, am I best hanging on to the VMS rather than looking for a replacement?
 
That's music to my ears (excuse the pun). I know this is a well liked cartridge and I have always enjoyed its smooth delivery. It was probably upgraditus but I always wondered whether there would be better matches out there.
Hopefully going to get Audio-origami to check it over along with the spare styli I have and hopefully it can go back to making sweet music soon.
 
I'm over in the USA, I have the VMS20E model, the stylus seems to no longer be on Ortofon's lists, there is a stock of the 20E stylus with a US retailer here Needle Doctor
I, too, had a VMS20E once, though it really didn't suit the Linn LVV I was using at the time!

Yes, sadly Ortofon have discontinued this stylus. They announced this last year, citing unavailability of certain components as the reason. The VMS30 stylus hasn't been available for ages, AFAIK.

There is clearly still stock of the VMS20E stylus out there, but when availability becomes a problem the choices are an aftermarket stylus of uncertain quality (and those I've seen advertised are pretty basic, being very similar to the replacements for lower-end VMS cartridges) or a new cartridge. The OM20/30 are still available from some online sources, and are fairly close in technology to the VMS models. These use the same stylus tips (nude elliptical and Fine Line respectively) as the VMS20/30.

HTH

Mark
 
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The fact that the original 20E replacements are still currently available is comforting. I am getting my current VMS30 stylus professionally inspected shortly so will make a decision on the way ahead then. It will be down to ordering a replacement 20E stylus if required or looking for a newer cartridge with perhaps better stylus availabilty in the future, i.e. OM series or perhaps 2M. Never easy when you tread the Vinyl route!
 
The fact that the original 20E replacements are still currently available is comforting. I am getting my current VMS30 stylus professionally inspected shortly so will make a decision on the way ahead then. It will be down to ordering a replacement 20E stylus if required or looking for a newer cartridge with perhaps better stylus availabilty in the future, i.e. OM series or perhaps 2M. Never easy when you tread the Vinyl route!

I think it's worth noting that Ortofon stated, when they announced they were discontinuing the VMS20E stylus, that they were making up a last batch using the parts they had been able to source. I imagine all those are now in the market, never to be replaced. From the tone of the announcement, it was clear they were aware how popular this cartridge has been over the years.

Ortofon sold the VMS cartridge design to Benz Micro after they discontinued it, and they were reissued under the Empire brand name, which Benz had also acquired.

Unlike the VMS designs, the OM body is still being made, as Ortofon are keeping the OM3E and 5E available, doubtless because they are still supplied by some turntable manufacturers as starter cartridges. It's also the basis for their popular DJ cartridges. So long as the better styli are available, an OM body can always be upgraded. For the moment, though, complete OM series cartridges up to the OM40 can still be bought from Germany.

It seems the 2M designs are a bit different in sound from the older Ortofons, perhaps less mellifluous but exhibiting greater clarity. I now use an Ortofon MC, and my most recent experience of one of their MM designs was the 530 MkII, which has also been discontinued (but is still available for now).

Hope these notes help!

Mark
 
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I sold perhaps 100's of VMS 20 and maybe 1000 . They are worth having re-tipped by Expert Stylus in Surrey UK . There is something slightly magical about the VMS 20 . It is a more practical cartridge compared with the Shure V15's and in my opinion not bettered by the Shure . I seem to remember it likes 220 pF loading . Often a loading device sits between the cartridge pins . If not NPO ceramic are good . My hunch is VMS is not outclassed by any turntable . B&O MMC 20 was held in equal regard if wanting similar/better and willing to pay more at the time ( I sold VMS 20 for £25 and MMC 20 for £ 99 ) . JVC X 1 also ( grand dad of all sophisticated cartridges I feel , Z1 is less good ) . A&R P77 is good , an Expert stylus I think ? The Grado's of what is made now would seem OK .

OM range are OK . They all sound alike to me and slightly less good . FF15E also is a VMS 20 more or less . VMS 10 I think was it's re-branding .

As compliance is seldom quoted ( and if it is I don't trust it ) I would tend to say for a low mass arm look for designs that seem to suggest low playing weights . 1.7 g is suggested by Denon a a practical minimum . However a Dual works fine at 1.25g with a VMS 20 . Being able to go to 1.7 g is good as it is suggested that it is a mechanical optimum . Spherical need more ( 2.2 g perhaps ) . Do not be put off , as the BBC supposedly said any properly designed arm and cartridge that is successfully tracking at < 3 g using a clean stylus should do no harm . I think the old Decca London makes me say that is not universal . It tracks test records fine . Not sure it tracks music so well . People mistake it's high output as a special quality ( it is ) . The Shure M44-7 is as good in my opinion and looks after the records better . Try one in an SME 5 , I have many times .

AT95 is OK ( Linn K18 when with a posh stylus ) . I seems to remember AT 95 has the lowest measured distortion of any PU ( < 1% THD ) !!! VMS 20 not far behind and more consistent .

BTW . Rega ( Roy Gandy ) always thought Fo for an arm might ideally be 8Hz . 12 Hz is often stated . His opinion being 12 Hz is far too high . Equally 6Hz is getting a bit low for warps . If there ever was a more confusing thing I don't know what it is . To state something mostly ignored , you are mostly listening to arm mass . If someone gives you an unsuitable high grade cartridge that you put in a Dual , you might feel very disappointed ( bland and lifeless ) .Try something simple . Put a coin on the head-shell with Blue-tak and retry it after resetting the playing weight . It might turnout to be the biggest upgrade you ever did . This is because you are bring the cartridge back into the range it was designed to work at ( Denon 103 especailly ) . The Dual arm is good enough to say it should equal nearly anything and adding is easier than subtracting weight . The mass once found might more imaginatively used . Like a motorcycle place the mass where the rider would be and not over the handlebars ( in front of stylus is bad ) . I seems to remember side to side resonance is best kept different to up and down ( Orfotfon test record required , you must get one if you can ) . Jerry has the wine shop for VTA is a must on the Ortofon disk . Dual 704 ( 721 ) if you see one is great , it has VTA I think ? Side force correction is ultra important . Use a few black grooves to view the tendency of the stylus to move into the centre of the turntable .Reject it is it fly's back . It is no good using an oscilloscope if the records are not produced for that use and/or damaged . If you have some mono records set until chancels require least side force to balance as best they will near records end . Blank grove was no good on ancient designs a the tip had less polish than now .
 
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Hi,

An original VMS30 stylus is a nude fine line extended contact
tip and can last a very long time tracking at about 1.25g.
It suits a Dual very well.

The VMS20E is nude elliptical, FF15E bushed elliptical.

"Upgrading" will be an expensive business for the same sort of stylus quality.
A replacement genuine VMS20E stylus is 140 Euros from William Thakkar.

rgds, sreten.
 
I just looked on eBay . OM 10 was an optimum cartridge for a 505 . I feel is won swings and roundabouts in a Dual over a VMS 20 E II . I dare say the Dual was the first time I saw it as a standard fit cartridge . Ortofon would be mad not to optimize it for the market leader . Memory says the 505 and VMS 20E were friends but not lovers . Might just be VTA as OM is taller ? VMS 20E was great in either Rega type ( Rega - Acos Lustre or Rega's own ) . Suits any SME or Hadcock . SME 3 is excellent with it .

At the prices I saw for new OM 10 is great .

M20FL seems to be a VMS30 . To my ears not , M20FL is superb . I slightly prefer VMS 20 and FF 15E to VMS 30 ( VTA no doubt ) . F15 E was not my cup of tea . VMS 5 was fun and very OK .

Some typo's in previous as time was running out .
 
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My major criticism of OM 10 was a slight blandness which I attribute to the range , VMS30 also alas ( VTA ? ) . To be frank I felt 20 outperformed 30 for most typical turntables . This was often true in hi fi that a quirk of design makes a cheaper thing better . As far as I know no Dual arm of any generation was ever bettered by typical cartridges , mass being the only question . Certainly the looks of the latter were more in tune with " opinion " . The 12 series idler driven Dual are nice machines . Their arms are excellent . 30 better than OM10 ? It is . I will say one thing . Technics SP 10 , SME 3 , OM10 , you would have no idea . Like your family car was winning a Grand Prix . Thing is I doubt SME 3 is much better than the Dual arm .

The best example of this was cartridge fixing . People would go to any lengths to do it up tight . Two Australian brothers insisted this was wrong and used Blutak . Whilst having fears for it sticking permanently I think it is better .Their PU's were some of the best of the day ( Garrot ) .The screws must be non magnetic . Alignment . People show me fancy alignment gauges . I use them and find they were 0.5 mm out . No good having a tool you can not use . I still think 2 zero's at 63.5 and 119 mm is best ( Percy Wilson of 1920's ) . I have made these out of paper and done 90 degrees by eye ( we are almost like perfect pitch for doing that ) . Used a schools ruler and got it 100 % right as far as our eyes can tell ( eyes being the problem ) . Having it correct get bias or anti skating right . If in doubt set it 0.25 g below what the turntable says . VTA , if in doubt have the arm slightly lower at the back ( 2 degrees perhaps ) . Not a great solution but better than nothing . Goldring needs slight backwards slope ( 1042 , nice device ) . They used a slightly odd cantilever length to get better overall performance . As people do VTA they thought it will get checked . Mr Van den Hull says he agrees with non of that . Like me he listens to classical and might have different priorities . VTA varies as the 15 degree ideal for cutting moved to 20 that is 5 was added , 15 is an approximation to requirements , spring back etc , etc . Hence V15 , VMS 20 . What one should do is set for good 1970 pressings . Then tweak playing weight for ones that seem edgy ( splitty ) .

The arm of the Dual is unusual ( later , cheaper ones perhaps not ) . It would offer the same playing down force on the Moon or Earth . An SME would be 1/6 th . You can set the dial weight to zero then add weight as you would an SME . This changes the arm mathematics a bit and sound . Try if you like . You will need a stylus balance to set it ( Shure is excellent and easy to use ) . This quirk allow the arm to ride warps better and at a great angle off of horizontal . The weight is set by a spring if as Dual intend ( like a watch spring ) . Rega also if the RB 300 ( not 250 ) . The spring works the other way on Rega to lift the arm up . Fully on ( 3 g ) is zero spring force . Not the same thing and not the same reasoning . Some say both are better without springs .

I sold more 505 in my life than most people ( 1000 + at a guess ) . I was involved with Dual in Farnell days . I think I might have been the one who suggested 505 in about 1977 ? I bought at a remarkable price a CS510 for my father which he still has . I sold a pile of them at £100 inc M95ED ( £50 off ) . When they ran out I said what a shame and said if only they could do some without all the fancy machining . Tom Harding ( ? ) said it wasn't such a daft idea see what German says . Farnell were rewarded by loosing distribution . Peter Johnson took over ( lovely guy , looked like a Viking ) , who also did Empire . I was rewarded by a trip to the factory which my boss took . He spoke German was the excuse . I was delighted as he loved every minute . When in his last days my brother put him up a satellite dish to get German TV . 1930's films that I would have thought censored often played . He spoke 21 languages and 7 fluently . Not so sure as an engineer I ever saw him finish anything . He called my job technical rep . Mostly I fixed stuff and did a bit of Video . He did the translation work FOC for Zeta becomes JET . He had sufficient understanding and the language skills . Surprisingly he felt the Germans did not understand substitutes of English and assumed the UK far behind with Zeta if looking at the US version . If not I suspect JET might not have existed at Harwell . It now has moved on to France . At the time I was bored to tears by JET . We sold them some very high speed video gear , that started it . Why I loved Dual was simply a love of engineering . Made down to a price . Perpetum Ebner was said to be a dispute between the brothers of Dual . PE was the more EMT style product . Wish I had sold PE .

If 505 would be truly exciting it would have VTA . 704 did , so it was in the parts bin . Get this . VTA whilst playing ! Sorry USA you were not first . If doing archive work it would be practical to do it for each . What a shame no 78 on 704 . There was a better 704 ( 721 ? ) , one day on eBay perhaps ? Politically you couldn't sell direct drives then . Shame as the Dual DD was good .
 
Had the styli checked over at Audio Origami. Got some nice photos as well. The 30 has plenty of life left in it and the 20E looks brand new. This is good news as I wanted to use the 20E, as it appears to give a better LTA in the Dual arm when bolted directly to the headshell. Way ahead sorted.
 
Hi,

FWIW the OM10 (a later version of the FF15E) bushed tipped elliptical
suited the budget versions of the Dual 505 well. The VMS20E and
OM20 (nude tipped ellipticals) are less cost effective in budget
505's, but better cartridges, and suit more expensive Duals well.

The VMS20E does not match the original Rega R200 arm well at all.

The nude FL (fine line) versions (VMS30 and OM30) suffered (and still do)
from a simple problem, new they sound no better than the new nude elliptical.
(Often slightly worse for various reasons in a new versus new comparison.)
However the tips last much longer and maintain better performance
over the effective life of the stylus, and are more cost effective.

rgds, sreten.

The Ortofon 510, 520 and 530 are my favourite versions.

My Ortofon MC15 Super Mk II with a FL stylus is still going strong
after many years bought for the princely sum of £86 exchange
many moons ago, a replacement would be £300+.
 
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I might have sold 500 x RB200 VMS 20 combo's ( 1000 more likely ) . On paper it doesn't work . In real life it is excellent .

Rega ( Roy Gandy ) said the supposed resonant frequency of an arm is set too high in common theory . If above 6 Hz and preferably 8Hz all is well . 12 Hz as pontificated is too high .

The original Shure V 15 required an arm of -5 g mass to work to accepted mathematical models . Like the bumble bee it couldn't work . The formula is Fo = 1/ 2Pi root ( MC ) . The Shure sold in many 1000's and did fly very well .

Conversely I was given a Schroeder carbon-fibre arm to try . I strongly disliked it . It brought my anti carbon-fibre prejudice into my thinking . The Schroeder has such a reputation as to make me unwilling to leave it there . I simply added mass to the arm ( 6 g at a guess ) . The sound was transformed , it had bass . I have a Schroeder wooden arm as a result . I know in my heart the mass is what I have over the carbon fibre . Naturally with suspended decks an ideal resonance might hit the spring frequency . This brings into question spring suspensions . Garrard users do it with squash balls .
 
VMS 30 was a sad case . Then M20Fl was streets better . If adding alinement problems of a fine-line it should be worth it in the final sound . To my ears VMS 20 E 2 was simply better . Ortofon played with the design a number of times . Why they didn't uses M20FL instead I will never know . If you have an M20FL you have one of the best . FF 15 E was better than VMS 30 in things I tried . I must admit an early set back doesn't inspire one to try . Linn Basik LVII arm had VTA adjust . Maybe that would work better . It will involve a day of adjustments . Ortofon had a test record to do it . House of the rising Sun was favourite with voice and guitar . Adjust to have nice sibilance on voice with good bass on the guitar to put it simply . +/- 5 degrees off of level is common . Ellipticals are less fussy . Old records need 5 degrees less VTA ( V15 refers to that , VMS 20 to the revised standard , vinyl spring-back is the technical term , 20 refers to + 5 degrees cutting angle , said to reduce IM distortion I think ) . All my now cartridges are FL so it is possible to live with this . VTA is a necessity of FL .
 
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Hi,

It depends on what deck you mount a cartridge with a compliance
nominally too high for the arm mass as to the result you will get.

Solid plinth designs can handle it better than suspended subchassis.
Both don't like wobbly furniture stands, wall mounting is good for
both if a solid floor is not available.

YMMV using a high compliance cartridge in a heavy arm. It works
but handling is a bit sqiffy compared to a lower compliance.

rgds, sreten.

Many PL12D's were sold with the ubquitous Shure M75ED
and ended up with the arm frequency too near the base
spring frequency, compromising the handling quite a lot.
 
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