Ignoring Grado, who are in a world of their own and which gives them their own very neat solution to this issue it seems there are about 3 distinct clusters, some of which have such strange bedfellows I need to check my source data again. However only the most deluded of nutters would have cartridges from all 3 clusters...erm..
Well...with the aid of a memory or smarter designs that I'm not aware of yet, you could fight the cartridge - tonearm resonances too making the cartridges lighter and longer the tonearms for longer vinyl use.
Addressing the whole turntable-cartridge system might be a better solution actually as the whole thing can give you the opportunity to ignore difficult problems when taken individually. I find many overstated quotes about any small part of a system, like "with the new cartridge I have a much superior sound and next year i'm going to buy a new one..." ignoring the rest of the system completely...
Addressing the whole turntable-cartridge system might be a better solution actually as the whole thing can give you the opportunity to ignore difficult problems when taken individually. I find many overstated quotes about any small part of a system, like "with the new cartridge I have a much superior sound and next year i'm going to buy a new one..." ignoring the rest of the system completely...
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There's also a catridge system i thought about for a while...I thought of using the coil-magnet(or moving iron) system to inject a current only to damp the cartridge (lower impedance coils needed) while reading the stylus movement with an optical system.This way you could design a really protective system for the Vinyl itself while still being able to remove the dust .The optical technology is up to the task today for this thing.
Not yet... Kevin keeps tempting me on the strain gauge but not until I have completed all current research. optical are out my funding bracket. Stax electret as well. But never say never
My lightest cartridge is 1.5g. How much lighter do you want?
How would longer change the resonances?
Yes lots of rubbish spoken by some. Here we are more interesting in the truth.
The system is important and there are threads on this and measurements and analysis. Some clever people on here!
MM carts aren't designed for zero impedance loads. If a resistor of, say, 47 kΩ is put between the cart and the virtual ground for loading it appropriately, the effective input signal level will be halved, but the noise will be increased. Sure that you want both of them?
For a MC cart you might give it a try. But connect it directly to the virtual ground, without a resistor.
OTOH, I second DF96's opinion.
Best regards!
For a MC cart you might give it a try. But connect it directly to the virtual ground, without a resistor.
OTOH, I second DF96's opinion.
Best regards!
"MM carts aren't designed for zero impedance loads"
Many people say that, but of those that say it have they tested it? We have several sucessful setups running amongst forum members, with measurements to show it works very well. It does take some getting your head around how it works if welded to the 47k world and it brings its own issues as Scott points out. But it should not be dismissed.
Many people say that, but of those that say it have they tested it? We have several sucessful setups running amongst forum members, with measurements to show it works very well. It does take some getting your head around how it works if welded to the 47k world and it brings its own issues as Scott points out. But it should not be dismissed.
Hasn't it already been established that this will not work, because the cartridge is a very inefficient electromechanical system with only weak coupling between the two domains? If the cartridge was designed to extract the groove energy then it might work, but cartridges are actually designed just to tell us what the groove is doing.dreamth said:
I realised last night that I have been awfully eurocentric in my consideration of what are the most popular MMs amongst enthusiasts. With no real figures its guestimates and meta analysis but, if you park anything that hasn't been in production for >30years* we can possibly get to a list that covers at least 50% hopefully higher (75% would be great). So in my limited view the big numbers have been shipped by
Grado
Ortofon
Audio Technica
Shure
Excel
Many will not have heard of Excel as a company but their generator is used in a whole slew of OEM carts from the A&R x77 in uk, through to the sumiko MM range and the LP gear vessel models that have recently been released.
Bonsai: I'll get a little panel engraved with room for a few more!
Any I have missed?
*Given the replacements still being sold I suspect there are large numbers of technics carts still in use but I have to draw a line somewhere.
Bonsai: I'll get a panel engraved and leave room for a few more names just in case. A round 10 would be great!
Grado
Ortofon
Audio Technica
Shure
Excel
Many will not have heard of Excel as a company but their generator is used in a whole slew of OEM carts from the A&R x77 in uk, through to the sumiko MM range and the LP gear vessel models that have recently been released.
Bonsai: I'll get a little panel engraved with room for a few more!
Any I have missed?
*Given the replacements still being sold I suspect there are large numbers of technics carts still in use but I have to draw a line somewhere.
Bonsai: I'll get a panel engraved and leave room for a few more names just in case. A round 10 would be great!
I've seen that when the cartridge -tonearms are light most people and also some tonearms manufacturers use some bronze added weight on the headshell to damp the system.The only ones that I'm aware to check their very low weight cart-arm resonance with a computer based ATE system was Bang&Olufsen ...
I never measured that but I've seen many statements about longer tonearm becoming resonant in the audio range.Personally i built some 50-60cm long carbon fiber tonearms(damped with styrofoam double wall cones) floating on water as in the video below and the sound was truly great:
YouTube
+1. Because I tried more than one solution, both DIY and industrial products (phono stages). Beside that, one should have perfectly set cartridge/arm geometry, ideally flat records, first class pressings, etc. that deserve extremely good phono stage. In a real world nothing is like that.
Few months ago my friend and I compared cheap NAD PP1 phono stage with expensive Lehmannaudio Black Cube. I prefer NAD! And NAD uses simple single stage noninverting RIAA with 5532.
I think you are confusing damping with resonant frequency. A slab of bronze will not 'damp' anything. It will merely add mass. So for example my SME30H is 5.5g total effective mass including cartridge has the same resonant frequency as a shure SC35 in a BBC MP1/18 12" arm.
Most used B&K test stuff. Don't underestimate what you could do with that stuff even if it was pre-computer.
It's all about mass and compliance no length.
Yes, e.g. the Ortofon OM series which weighs 2.5 gr without and 5 gr with that arrow-shaped additional weight that it is supplied with.
I've removed this weight before I've installed the cart to the ULM arm of my Dual CS741Q TT.
Best regards!
Sshhhh……….no-one told the cartridges that!
Even if just an intellectual exercise, why not? If generator-mechanics coupling isn't even slightly reciprocal, as it isn't, what consequences of pulling 10uA of current or so - in physics terms?
IMO the answer lies in considering whether the coil's inductance behaves differently at 10uA versus 0.1uA peak. Or -50dB below those levels for low level programme content. As an inductor, looking into it from the 2 pin port. To cut a long story short, there's some evidence that it does behave differently, and closer to ideal at the higher current/slew rates. IMHO it's probably about fixed magnetic losses at very small levels. So zero impedance is better...….
LD
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The MM electrical circuit does not have an impedance of 47K (real) it has a complex impedance vs frequency and the signal is not simply "halved". The noise is from the real part of the impedance and the 47K load only makes that worse. The virtual ground is simply a win win with of course the need to make your own equalization. Gee it must be 27yr. ago when I published some pre-amp noise plots with a cartridge coil with 47K||250pF load as source impedance, the current noise contribution of a 1nV bi-polar op-amp was pretty obvious due to the real part of the electrical resonance.
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A piece of bronze placed on top of the headshell where the headshell is attached to the tonearm will change the center of the tonearm-cart mass closer to the cartridge throwing any resonance between cart-tonearm into the ultrasonic rage while keeping the headshell -tonearm resonance in the subsonic range .
That should be more obvious with stiffer stylus like dj ones or with conical stylus.
Am i wrong about it?
I had an OM-5e, i know that arrow shaped bronze piece, i have two Duals, the 701 and 1219 and i also have a broken one based on ULT tonearm and that is the lightest one, so removing that piece might probably help with that tonearm , i have no ideea how...though.