You shouldn't let anything touch the sides of the cleaning bath.You need to suspend the records.
My 2 cents: I guess it can't hurt, but I don't see the point of the silver coil. The kill coils are for long term use in loop cooling systems that have more or less constant flow, or frequent on/off cycles. When you shut down your URC filter pump, there isn't any flow, so the coil won't keep things from growing elsewhere in your tubing where there is standing water for days on end.
After a cleaning session, everything should be opened up, drained and allowed to dry out, including your URC tank, the filter, filter canister and tubing. That prevents growth during the long periods where stuff isn't being cleaned.
Cheers,
B B
After a cleaning session, everything should be opened up, drained and allowed to dry out, including your URC tank, the filter, filter canister and tubing. That prevents growth during the long periods where stuff isn't being cleaned.
Cheers,
B B
Hi bbftx,
Thanks for your reply.
In reply to your comments about the silver kill coil, I agree with your points, but:
I usually find time to clean records for 1-2 hours a day, every day. I run the pump for 30 minutes or so after I finish. Even if it’s a good idea, and I’m sure that you are correct, I’m not going to dump out my 6 -7 liters of distilled water, a cup of Everclear, rebleed the pump, etc., every day. I was trying the silver coil because, as you put it, “I guess it can’t hurt.” Throwing away the filter and hoses every month or so is faster, cheaper & easier.
I'm counting on the Loricraft and L'Art to avoid any issues with my records.
I would be happy to try other suggestions. More silver, running the pump more, an additive that doesn't hurt anything, etc. ????
Don
Thanks for your reply.
In reply to your comments about the silver kill coil, I agree with your points, but:
I usually find time to clean records for 1-2 hours a day, every day. I run the pump for 30 minutes or so after I finish. Even if it’s a good idea, and I’m sure that you are correct, I’m not going to dump out my 6 -7 liters of distilled water, a cup of Everclear, rebleed the pump, etc., every day. I was trying the silver coil because, as you put it, “I guess it can’t hurt.” Throwing away the filter and hoses every month or so is faster, cheaper & easier.
I'm counting on the Loricraft and L'Art to avoid any issues with my records.
I would be happy to try other suggestions. More silver, running the pump more, an additive that doesn't hurt anything, etc. ????
Don
@redcars
I was thinking of doing a dual 37 & 80 cycle myself so its nice to hear you think its worth it...
I was only doing 1 rotation of the record before drying on my Okki Nokki so i think i'll increase to 3 cycles as i have a few records that definitely need a bit more TLC...
Nice to see another Elma user, report back the odd time with any new findings
I was thinking of doing a dual 37 & 80 cycle myself so its nice to hear you think its worth it...
I was only doing 1 rotation of the record before drying on my Okki Nokki so i think i'll increase to 3 cycles as i have a few records that definitely need a bit more TLC...
Nice to see another Elma user, report back the odd time with any new findings
After reading the post at Audio Asylum, it made me think about ultrasonic cleaning. If the bubbles can punch holes on aluminum foils, how about vinyls?
Vinyl Asylum
Vinyl Asylum
No, ultrasonic cleaning won't punch holes in vinyl like it does in aluminum foil.
Foil is typically .0005" thick. Or about 10 to 15 microns. That's thinner than the radius of cavitation bubbles in an ultrasonic tank. There's very little aluminum mass relative to the energy density of the tiny cavitation bubbles. LPs are about 150 times thicker. Once you get to about .002" thickness foil, there is no damage to the foil in a high frequency ultrasonic tank -- none.
The argument that ultrasonic cleaners damage extremely thin foil, (metal!!!), so they must damage thicker LPs (plastic!!!) is silly.
What happens to aluminum foil if you tried to clean it on a VPI or other vacuum equipped record cleaner? It would get demolished worse than in an ultrasonic tank! Therefore I shouldn't clean my vinyl LP on said vacuum machine...
Cheers,
B B
Of course, nobody will suggest that the bubbles can literally punch holes through records. But I am not sure if tiny grooves can withstand these punches. I would assume the force generated by the contact of stylus is much stronger than the force generated by the bubbles. So if it is safe for stylus contacting the grooves, it should be ok for bubbles, too. However, I have not seen a definitive study which indicates ultrasound cleaning is safe for records.
Hey Super, The empirical evidence for cleaning plastics safely with ultrasonics is overwhelming. Ultrasonic cleaning is used extensively for cleaning sensitive plastic labware, and has been used for decades to do this. The original patent for ultrasonic cleaning of LP records is over 50 years old. The inventor on the patent (Henes) had extensive experience with what could be cleaned safely with ultrasonics. In addition, as has been stated many times in this thread, using high frequencies, 60khz and above, which creates lower energy cavitation bubbles, provides an additional margin for safety in cleaning delicate, sensitive items like an LP groove. I have posted waveforms as well, before and after, that show no denigration of high frequency info on an LP.
Cheers,
B B
Cheers,
B B
Thanks B B
I've been following this thread for years.
I was lucky to score the Vibrato on Tindie and it has rocked my world!
http://http://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-desk-systeme-vinyl-cleaner-page-2#EkwxOVZfprJ6qkIm.97
I hope this link works. Fred Kaplan describes my experience. Incredible.
I've been following this thread for years.
I was lucky to score the Vibrato on Tindie and it has rocked my world!
http://http://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-desk-systeme-vinyl-cleaner-page-2#EkwxOVZfprJ6qkIm.97
I hope this link works. Fred Kaplan describes my experience. Incredible.
That, to me, is a perfectly reasonable assumption.
You might be waiting sooo long for such a "definitive study" - and would you necessarily believe it anyway? - that I suggest your eyesight will have deteriorated so much that you will no longer be able to cue your stylus accurately.
So I suggest you just get on with it and buy an 80Khz machine - or, at the very least, a 60Khz m/c.
Andy
Kindly help me with some questions.
1) Elmasonic owners can your please share you experience? For this application, what is the material difference between expensive Elmasonic and cheap eBay machines? What is your experience of difference in cleaning at 40kHz vs 80kHz? Does 80kHz cleans better or is it too gentle to clean effectively?
2) Has anyone tried even higher frequencies, 120kHz, 160kHz?
Say, High Frequency Ultrasonic Cleaner XP-HF-360-6L-120KHz
3) Has anyone experimented with after-clean rinse (non ultrasonic) in a separate tank?
4) What should be the workflow for LPs picked up from flea market? For example, dry brushing - hand washing in kitchen sink - rinse in distilled water - ultrasonic clean - rinse in distilled water, dry on rack...
5) Is there an air blower/dryer with HEPA filter?
1) Elmasonic owners can your please share you experience? For this application, what is the material difference between expensive Elmasonic and cheap eBay machines? What is your experience of difference in cleaning at 40kHz vs 80kHz? Does 80kHz cleans better or is it too gentle to clean effectively?
2) Has anyone tried even higher frequencies, 120kHz, 160kHz?
Say, High Frequency Ultrasonic Cleaner XP-HF-360-6L-120KHz
3) Has anyone experimented with after-clean rinse (non ultrasonic) in a separate tank?
4) What should be the workflow for LPs picked up from flea market? For example, dry brushing - hand washing in kitchen sink - rinse in distilled water - ultrasonic clean - rinse in distilled water, dry on rack...
5) Is there an air blower/dryer with HEPA filter?
New2 my 2 cents worth:
As mentioned in earlier parts of this thread, you need to be very aware of the Chinese 40K units. Some are ok and a lot are crap. While inexpensive you may end up paying 2 - 3 times the amount in the long run to get a usable unit. Also check out the Sonix IV units which are 60KHZ. I have found used on Ebay between 100 - 300 bucks.
Personally I am not convinced about the effectiveness of the 80K units. I have a Vibrato unit and while it is ok for clean looking records I find it less effective for grungy thrift store/garage sale finds. My Sonix 60k unit seems to do a better job overall. So my feeling is anything above 80 like 120k etc would be cleaning the dirt off of the dirt!
I do not do clean rinse after as the IPA will evaporate as with the distilled water. I use distilled water, 6% by volume 99% IPA & a drop or two of Triton 100.
Your cleaning regiment is what makes you feel satisfied in having a clean playable record. Everyone's is going to vary a bit. For myself sometimes a prewash with a particularly dirty record but for the most part just a US cleaning is all I need.
There is guy named David who sells a dryer cube but I did not see any filter. Plus you would have to use his spindle.
As mentioned in earlier parts of this thread, you need to be very aware of the Chinese 40K units. Some are ok and a lot are crap. While inexpensive you may end up paying 2 - 3 times the amount in the long run to get a usable unit. Also check out the Sonix IV units which are 60KHZ. I have found used on Ebay between 100 - 300 bucks.
Personally I am not convinced about the effectiveness of the 80K units. I have a Vibrato unit and while it is ok for clean looking records I find it less effective for grungy thrift store/garage sale finds. My Sonix 60k unit seems to do a better job overall. So my feeling is anything above 80 like 120k etc would be cleaning the dirt off of the dirt!
I do not do clean rinse after as the IPA will evaporate as with the distilled water. I use distilled water, 6% by volume 99% IPA & a drop or two of Triton 100.
Your cleaning regiment is what makes you feel satisfied in having a clean playable record. Everyone's is going to vary a bit. For myself sometimes a prewash with a particularly dirty record but for the most part just a US cleaning is all I need.
There is guy named David who sells a dryer cube but I did not see any filter. Plus you would have to use his spindle.
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Ultrasonic is the Way to Go
FWIW I have cleaned over 600 records with a Somix 4 I bought used in expensively. I use room temperature water and was using a few drops of non scented dish soap with a few drops of Photoflow. Now, I use a few drops of Triton-100 and a few drops of a medical cleaner Hepastat 265 with a couple an ounce or more of Isopropyl. The second step is to rinse with distilled water, as used in the ultrasonic machine, with some Isopropyl, in a VPI Cyclone. I think rinsing and vacuuming is a worthwhile step as the effluent is dirty. It seems to get the last bit of grudge out of the lp.
All of the records sound much quieter and no evidence of damage or any stuff on the stylus. My in process project is to set up a filter system. I already have a 1 micron filter cartridge and housing, just waiting for the pump to do the plumbing. This should keep the solution clean and more effective.,I would not hesitate to recommend ultrasonic cleaning as the best alternative.
FWIW I have cleaned over 600 records with a Somix 4 I bought used in expensively. I use room temperature water and was using a few drops of non scented dish soap with a few drops of Photoflow. Now, I use a few drops of Triton-100 and a few drops of a medical cleaner Hepastat 265 with a couple an ounce or more of Isopropyl. The second step is to rinse with distilled water, as used in the ultrasonic machine, with some Isopropyl, in a VPI Cyclone. I think rinsing and vacuuming is a worthwhile step as the effluent is dirty. It seems to get the last bit of grudge out of the lp.
All of the records sound much quieter and no evidence of damage or any stuff on the stylus. My in process project is to set up a filter system. I already have a 1 micron filter cartridge and housing, just waiting for the pump to do the plumbing. This should keep the solution clean and more effective.,I would not hesitate to recommend ultrasonic cleaning as the best alternative.
I forgot to write "If" ; thus no problem with Isopropyl Alcohol.
What are other options?
Nothing wrong with Alconox. Should work.
Definitely need the rinse though.
Cheers,
B B