I just ordered the electronic version....
Let s hope we won t have any surprises...
Okay, you got me, I am a total convert to ultrasonic cleaning. Sonix IV 60Khz machine with a 4RPH Synchron motor. Using distilled water, photo-flo, and isopropl alcohol mixture as suggested. Temp at 100-110 degrees. I have the parts to build the VIP clone, but now see that it would be a step backwards.
Surface noise is greatly reduced, and without using all the audiophile jargon, It just plain sounds better. I will post pictures of the mock-up later, but I'm pretty sure I am going to recess it into the countertop for a cleaner look. Thanks to BB and everyone else for posting all your efforts. Great job guys!
Surface noise is greatly reduced, and without using all the audiophile jargon, It just plain sounds better. I will post pictures of the mock-up later, but I'm pretty sure I am going to recess it into the countertop for a cleaner look. Thanks to BB and everyone else for posting all your efforts. Great job guys!
TX for the synthesis. Don't want to be pedantic but it is important to say that 100-110 degrees is to be meant Farenheit (would not someone to boil records indeed
)Could anyone list possible suppliers for a 4-6 RPH motor in Europe?
I am also looking for a motor and a good candidate seems to be spit-roast rotating motors. I can find them locally for around 5-10 euros
I ordered this:
Motor:
High torque Turbo worm Geared motor DC motor GW370 12V 0.6rpm
AC/DC wall wart:
Universal AC/DC Stabilisiert- Netzgerät 230V - 50Hz 650mA mit 6 univ.steckern
I should get roughly:
1 minute an 40 seconds per revolution at 12V
3 minutes and 20 seconds per revolution at 6V
4 minutes and 27 seconds per revolution at 4.5V
6 minutes and 40 seconts per revolution at 3V
Directly at the motor shaft. I belive motor has enough RPM and torque to function at 1/4 of nominal voltage, but I have absolutely no idea if that's true. Well, if I will have problems with motor stalling or not starting at low voltage I'll use gears to reduce speed.
Motor:
High torque Turbo worm Geared motor DC motor GW370 12V 0.6rpm
AC/DC wall wart:
Universal AC/DC Stabilisiert- Netzgerät 230V - 50Hz 650mA mit 6 univ.steckern
I should get roughly:
1 minute an 40 seconds per revolution at 12V
3 minutes and 20 seconds per revolution at 6V
4 minutes and 27 seconds per revolution at 4.5V
6 minutes and 40 seconts per revolution at 3V
Directly at the motor shaft. I belive motor has enough RPM and torque to function at 1/4 of nominal voltage, but I have absolutely no idea if that's true.
Well, if I will have problems with motor stalling or not starting at low voltage I'll use gears to reduce speed.
Hmm yeah I forgot to mention that I am going for the rotation schedule of the Audio Desk cleaner, which is 10rpm more or less
Also started working on the cleaner since I saw them at the audio show in Las Vegas. Great forum with the helpful tips!
Only have trouble finding the right motor in Europe (or a supplier which ships to Europe for small orders and acceptable costs). Any members from Europe have a tip where to find the right motor, around 6 RPH?
Only have trouble finding the right motor in Europe (or a supplier which ships to Europe for small orders and acceptable costs). Any members from Europe have a tip where to find the right motor, around 6 RPH?
This post explains why a continuous stay in the bath should be preferred and the rotation period around 5 RPH.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...ultrasonic-record-cleaner-38.html#post3629143
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I have read the entire thread many times, along with other relevant pages, and I have thought about it a lot.
The 10rpm is an educated decision for me and not a blind one.
10rmp is proven to work with great results on the Audio Desk cleaner. Even if with not perfectly super duper clean results, it will still be pretty close enough.
My main concern is the possibility of cavity formation because of the extended stay in the liquid, especially since I will be using a 40KHz device, and not a 60 or 80KHz as suggested on the thread.
And since I do not have either the time or the knowledge to run simulations or physics models to verify the safe operation, I would rather sacrifice some of the extra cleaning perfection to keep my peace of mind.
Audiomix, a member of Norwegian forum Hifisentralen has performed this test:
Hifisentralen topic on DIY ultrasonic record cleaner
(from post #53 onwards).
He has left a record in ultrasonic cleaner stationery for 200 hours, of which 70 have been with ultrasonic cleaning turned on (in several hours long sessions). This was a test for two things:
- if the cleaning solution of distilled water, isopropyl alcohol and surfactant agent damages the vinyl
- if the 150W and 40kHz ultrasonic cleaning damages vinyl
Audiomix and several other members of forum have listened to the record and looked at it through microscope, and couldn't find any damage to the record, other than deposit line where the water level was. They have unfortunately managed to damage the record while trying to provide enough light to take photos through microscope.
So, if 4200 minutes of cleaning hasn't shown any damage I sincerely doubt that 1/420 of that will be problematic. It could be that frequency of 60kHz has advantages for our purpose only in theory, since:
- 40kHz does not damage vinyl in any noticeable degree, according to test by Audiomix
- grooves on a record are very narrow, but also very shallow (minimum 25 microns wide for LP and minimum 12 microns deep) - higher ultrasonic frequency is usually preferred when objects in ultrasonic bath have very thin deep grooves (for instance not disassembled units) or longer narrow bores.
Hifisentralen topic on DIY ultrasonic record cleaner
(from post #53 onwards).
He has left a record in ultrasonic cleaner stationery for 200 hours, of which 70 have been with ultrasonic cleaning turned on (in several hours long sessions). This was a test for two things:
- if the cleaning solution of distilled water, isopropyl alcohol and surfactant agent damages the vinyl
- if the 150W and 40kHz ultrasonic cleaning damages vinyl
Audiomix and several other members of forum have listened to the record and looked at it through microscope, and couldn't find any damage to the record, other than deposit line where the water level was. They have unfortunately managed to damage the record while trying to provide enough light to take photos through microscope.
So, if 4200 minutes of cleaning hasn't shown any damage I sincerely doubt that 1/420 of that will be problematic. It could be that frequency of 60kHz has advantages for our purpose only in theory, since:
- 40kHz does not damage vinyl in any noticeable degree, according to test by Audiomix
- grooves on a record are very narrow, but also very shallow (minimum 25 microns wide for LP and minimum 12 microns deep) - higher ultrasonic frequency is usually preferred when objects in ultrasonic bath have very thin deep grooves (for instance not disassembled units) or longer narrow bores.
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Nice, clean design w/ removable spindle. Great job!Here is a picture of my cleaner:
^ Of course
As I use my cleaner for different cleaning operations, I chose to build the drive unit and support unit as «hang-on» adapters. My aim were also to build all the different units and parts small enough, so everything now can be stored inside the cleaner (w/lid on) when not in use.
The motor was purchased from Tsiny Motors in China. This motor already has a gearbox (3 rev´s/min) that makes it easy to gear further down. Lucky for me I had some plastic gears from an old printer that I could use for a gearbox, and the spindle/axel now turns 1 rev by 4 min 15 seconds w/7,5 v PSU and 1 rev by 3 min 40 seconds W/9 v PSU. I used ball bearings on the mid gear axel to minimize friction and wear.
The “hang on” adapters are built from 4 and 6 mm SAN plastic that is cut and glued together before painted matt black. The gear and the ball bearing on the drive side is fixed to the spindle/axel, so this keep it in the correct position. And, not that easy to se on the picture – the ball bearings used for the spindle/axel is mounted in 25mm spacers that fits into recessed grooves in the adaptors. This makes it easy to put the spindle/axel in the correct position.
The only tricky part with the construction was to measure the exact distance between the axels so I got the correct tooth clearance for the gears.
I chose to use 8mm nylon plastic spacers, cut with a hole saw as distances between the LP´s. This allows me to clean 9 LP´s in the batch, but I use two spacers between the LP´s and clean only 4 LP´s at the same time.
As I use my cleaner for different cleaning operations, I chose to build the drive unit and support unit as «hang-on» adapters. My aim were also to build all the different units and parts small enough, so everything now can be stored inside the cleaner (w/lid on) when not in use.
The motor was purchased from Tsiny Motors in China. This motor already has a gearbox (3 rev´s/min) that makes it easy to gear further down. Lucky for me I had some plastic gears from an old printer that I could use for a gearbox, and the spindle/axel now turns 1 rev by 4 min 15 seconds w/7,5 v PSU and 1 rev by 3 min 40 seconds W/9 v PSU. I used ball bearings on the mid gear axel to minimize friction and wear.
The “hang on” adapters are built from 4 and 6 mm SAN plastic that is cut and glued together before painted matt black. The gear and the ball bearing on the drive side is fixed to the spindle/axel, so this keep it in the correct position. And, not that easy to se on the picture – the ball bearings used for the spindle/axel is mounted in 25mm spacers that fits into recessed grooves in the adaptors. This makes it easy to put the spindle/axel in the correct position.
The only tricky part with the construction was to measure the exact distance between the axels so I got the correct tooth clearance for the gears.
I chose to use 8mm nylon plastic spacers, cut with a hole saw as distances between the LP´s. This allows me to clean 9 LP´s in the batch, but I use two spacers between the LP´s and clean only 4 LP´s at the same time.
OK I found the motor that I will use. It is running somewhere around 24RPM at 6V with much tork, but I plan to use a 5V arduino to drive it with PWM, so I should be able to define any speed I want.
The same arduino will also control a couple of fans blowing the record while it is out of the tank, so that it dries really quickly
The same arduino will also control a couple of fans blowing the record while it is out of the tank, so that it dries really quickly
Got my ultrasonic cleaner today (still waiting for most of other bits and pieces). Big box and heavy, I expected something much smaller. After opening I discovered why, they sent me the wrong one - instead of:
6.5L Professional Ultrasonic Cleaner With Timer + Heating Free Basket 6L 031, £139.99
Manual Time and Heat Control, Ultrasonic Power: 180 Watt, Heat Power : 150 Watt, Tank size: 6.5 L, Tank Internal Dimension: 300 (L) x 150 (D) x 150 (H) mm, Timer: 0-30 min, Temp: 20-80 degree, Ultrasonic Frequency: 42,000 Hz, 3 Transducers
I received this one:
10L Professional Digital Ultrasonic Cleaner + Heating + Timer + Basket 040S, £189.99
Digital Time and Heat Control, With digital display of set time and time remaining, and set temperature and actual temperature. Power: 200 Watt, Heat Power : 200 Watt, Tank size: 10 L, Tank Internal Dimension: 300 (L) x 240 (D) x 150 (H) mm, Weight:6.0KG, Timer: 0-30 min, Ultrasonic Frequency: 40,000 Hz, 4 Transducers
I can use the received unit - power is almost the same, they have both 300mm long and 150mm deep tank, it just takes more place than necessary and uses more distilled water than planned. I notified the seller, but I guess they won't bother with exchange - since shipping one way costs 40 pounds and difference in cost is only 50 pounds. I just hope they won't try to charge me the extra money.
6.5L Professional Ultrasonic Cleaner With Timer + Heating Free Basket 6L 031, £139.99
Manual Time and Heat Control, Ultrasonic Power: 180 Watt, Heat Power : 150 Watt, Tank size: 6.5 L, Tank Internal Dimension: 300 (L) x 150 (D) x 150 (H) mm, Timer: 0-30 min, Temp: 20-80 degree, Ultrasonic Frequency: 42,000 Hz, 3 Transducers
I received this one:
10L Professional Digital Ultrasonic Cleaner + Heating + Timer + Basket 040S, £189.99
Digital Time and Heat Control, With digital display of set time and time remaining, and set temperature and actual temperature. Power: 200 Watt, Heat Power : 200 Watt, Tank size: 10 L, Tank Internal Dimension: 300 (L) x 240 (D) x 150 (H) mm, Weight:6.0KG, Timer: 0-30 min, Ultrasonic Frequency: 40,000 Hz, 4 Transducers
I can use the received unit - power is almost the same, they have both 300mm long and 150mm deep tank, it just takes more place than necessary and uses more distilled water than planned. I notified the seller, but I guess they won't bother with exchange - since shipping one way costs 40 pounds and difference in cost is only 50 pounds. I just hope they won't try to charge me the extra money.
Got my ultrasonic cleaner today (still waiting for most of other bits and pieces). Big box and heavy, I expected something much smaller. After opening I discovered why, they sent me the wrong one - instead of:
6.5L Professional Ultrasonic Cleaner With Timer + Heating Free Basket 6L 031, £139.99
Manual Time and Heat Control, Ultrasonic Power: 180 Watt, Heat Power : 150 Watt, Tank size: 6.5 L, Tank Internal Dimension: 300 (L) x 150 (D) x 150 (H) mm, Timer: 0-30 min, Temp: 20-80 degree, Ultrasonic Frequency: 42,000 Hz, 3 Transducers
I received this one:
10L Professional Digital Ultrasonic Cleaner + Heating + Timer + Basket 040S, £189.99
Digital Time and Heat Control, With digital display of set time and time remaining, and set temperature and actual temperature. Power: 200 Watt, Heat Power : 200 Watt, Tank size: 10 L, Tank Internal Dimension: 300 (L) x 240 (D) x 150 (H) mm, Weight:6.0KG, Timer: 0-30 min, Ultrasonic Frequency: 40,000 Hz, 4 Transducers
I can use the received unit - power is almost the same, they have both 300mm long and 150mm deep tank, it just takes more place than necessary and uses more distilled water than planned. I notified the seller, but I guess they won't bother with exchange - since shipping one way costs 40 pounds and difference in cost is only 50 pounds. I just hope they won't try to charge me the extra money.
I've ordered the 6.5L with analog controls. The model I got is the same as your. I will keep it and try to wash more records as I planned to do at first...