Certainly. although I must say that most of "my" photos are referenced from my website. And I intend to leave the site largely intact for as long as I'm around to pay the server fees. However, I see your point. Particularly when photos are hosted by places such as photobucket and other similar sites, these tend to be rather transient and short lived links.
One concern I have is that this site, due to concerns about bandwidth consumption will sacrifice file sizes and therefore image quality in order to meet bandwidth limits for the site. And I imagine these forums, when you take into consideration all of the different threads that need to exhibit photos and imagery, will consume monster volumes of bandwidth. But the photos linked from my site are generous with file size and tend to offer good image quality. And that bandwidth is being carried by servers I pay for.
I'm not sure what to do about the photos already posted. In particular those posted from my website will remain where they are indefinitely. But the photobucket links will disappear fairly soon, I gather.
-Steve
I checked with a company specializing in exotic plastics for industrial applications. Without knowing the exact conditions within the bearing they recomended to go "all in" with Torlon 4301 to be on the safe side
I also spoke with the guy who is responsible for all the service and maintenance of the SP-10s at the Swedish Broadcasting Corporation. They still have a few of these in operation, but the still keep 20 of them in storage awaiting a big project to digitalize all the vinyl they got. He had a lot of views an input in general, but unfortunately he could not help with any more information on the thrust cap. Apprently to his knowledge they never have open up the bearing of an sp-10!
Looking forward to your measurements Steve!
Regards
Nils
Checking on Torlon 4301 here in the UK, it costs approx US$ 200 for 12" of 1" od stock!
It is machinable, but instinct tells me that Technics would not have used such expensive material in the original.
Well, you shurely don't want 1" stock.
At McMaster-Carr, you can buy 1/4", 3/8" and so on rod.
3/8" should do, mill the recess for the metal bearing end and cut off to the desired length. A small lathe or a milling machine can do it. Lathe would be best.
Prices below are for 12" long piece,
Rush
Ultra-Strength High-Temperature Torlon PAI
Capable of maintaining its shape and strength across a range of temperatures, Torlon PAI is often used in high-friction applications, such as non-lubricated bearings, seals, and compressor parts.
View detailed performance properties for plastics.
Rods
Color: Black
Temperature Range: -320° to 500° F
Tensile Strength: Excellent
Impact Strength: Poor
Diameter has a plus tolerance. Rods have a slippery surface and meet UL 94V0 for flame retardance.
Dia. Available
Lengths, ft. Per Ft.
1/4"
1, 2, 3, 4
8566K81 $15.24
3/8"
1, 2, 3, 4
8566K83 28.92
1/2"
1, 2, 3, 4
8566K84 35.39
5/8"
1, 2, 3, 4
8566K91 57.64
3/4"
1, 2, 3, 4
8566K85 94.51
1"
1, 2, 3, 4
8566K86 127.69
1 1/4"
1, 2, 3, 4
8566K87 208.24
1 1/2"
1, 2, 3, 4
8566K89 299.33
I agree, it's probably closer to Nylatron than anything else, as far as properties go. Torlon is probably overkill for this application, but that doesn't stop anyone from trying it.
jeff
Nylatron, perhaps somewhat dated, was designed for our specific mechanical purpose. As a thrust bearing material. And it has a long track record of usage that lets us know approximate rates of wear under normal use.
Nylatron is cheap and machinable. Just looking at the thrust cap on my unit, it sure appears similar in color/texture to the Nylatron thrust pads on various Thorens players I've had apart.
So this material would be my choice, if the goal is to restore original performance spec.
Although----going to a more modern plastic that is designed for our purpose but, thanks to progress, greatly out performs Nylatron as an anti-friction bearing material. That does have some appeal. The Torlon, even when you find it in a rod diameter close to what we need, is still very expensive to purchase by the foot. Sometimes Torlon remnants can be found at a great reduction in price if we don't mind searching far and near and under things, so to speak.
-Steve
Nylatron is cheap and machinable. Just looking at the thrust cap on my unit, it sure appears similar in color/texture to the Nylatron thrust pads on various Thorens players I've had apart.
So this material would be my choice, if the goal is to restore original performance spec.
Although----going to a more modern plastic that is designed for our purpose but, thanks to progress, greatly out performs Nylatron as an anti-friction bearing material. That does have some appeal. The Torlon, even when you find it in a rod diameter close to what we need, is still very expensive to purchase by the foot. Sometimes Torlon remnants can be found at a great reduction in price if we don't mind searching far and near and under things, so to speak.
-Steve
I bet there was some in the Boeing surplus store. Someone told me they closed it down thou.
jeff
I spoke to a local guy in Stockholm who make the Simply Black turntables (I am sure the Scandinavian followers of diyaudio knows the company) about the thrust cap.
They are now making a replacement for me in Delrin.
We had a look at a delrin thrust plate that has been is use in a turntable (Simply black) for well over 20 years. The platter on this turntable weights about 3 kg which is the same as for the Technics. The delrin did not show any sign of wear. Delron will do for me!
The guys also commented on the SP 10 thrust cap as an area where the design is less than optimal: Because of the cap being smaller than the diameter of the bearing, the plastic/Nylatron/Delrin will under pressure from the platter weight be compressed and loose the shape slightly. They tried to make a metal ring to surround the cap and help it maintain its shape, but they could not fit it in because there was no space for it.
I will hopefully receive the cap during next week!
Nils
They are now making a replacement for me in Delrin.
We had a look at a delrin thrust plate that has been is use in a turntable (Simply black) for well over 20 years. The platter on this turntable weights about 3 kg which is the same as for the Technics. The delrin did not show any sign of wear. Delron will do for me!
The guys also commented on the SP 10 thrust cap as an area where the design is less than optimal: Because of the cap being smaller than the diameter of the bearing, the plastic/Nylatron/Delrin will under pressure from the platter weight be compressed and loose the shape slightly. They tried to make a metal ring to surround the cap and help it maintain its shape, but they could not fit it in because there was no space for it.
I will hopefully receive the cap during next week!
Nils
Any chance of getting more caps? Contact info?
Several here may need them here.
I would like 4, as I have that many Technics SP-10 MKIIs.
(Anybody looking for one?)
Rush
Great.
Please post pics when you receive the replacement thrust cap.
something revealing was said when your (Simply Black) connection suggested that the Delrin will lose shape under pressure from the platter weight.
I've used various materials for thrust pads on my Thorens TD124. Admittedly, the Thorens thrust pad is a different design. (flat disk). However the weight of the Thorens platter (9 lbs) is enough to create an indentation in the pad within the first few weeks. And then as the hours mount up the size of this indentation slowly grows. Although I must say that I have not encountered any wear to the effect that it became obvious the pad needed to be replaced. I'm just saying that an indentation became obvious early while using Delrin.
I've also tried a Teflon infused Delrin. This stuff is brown. Teflon content in this composition is stated to be 20%. And it has appeared to wear longer (smaller indentations over longer time periods).
Another consideration. Because of the shape / design of this Technics thrust cap, and the shape of the knob end of the bearing shaft that it must snap onto, there must be some material deformation of the cap to install it in the first place. So if we were to try another harder plastic with a much higher modulus of elasticity the tolerance of size would need to be adjusted if the cap is to "snap" onto the knob end of the bearing shaft. Just thinking out loud.
More thinking out loud:
What if the bearing cap, while the motor runs, remains motionless in its contact with the bearing ball thrust, while the motor bearing shaft spins within the cap?!! Do we want that. It must be a consideration.
-Steve
Any chance of getting more caps? Contact info?
Several here may need them here.
I would like 4, as I have that many Technics SP-10 MKIIs.
(Anybody looking for one?)
Rush
Hi Rush.
I asked them to quote a price if they do a small batch. I guess I will get an indicaton when I pick up the cap.
I also like to make sure that the new cap actually works before checking interest for additional caps
I will keep you posted!
Nils
This can never happend.
the contact to the shaft has much more friction then the ball bearing. Even with the cap somewhat loose it will not spin free. But the cap could also be glued in place so hardly any press fit is needed.
status and reply
BenY:
I had thought that a small dab of adhesive might hold the cap in place regardless of how snug it might snap over the knob end of the bearing shaft.
I"ll know more once I finally remove the thrust cap from my unit. But that is a couple of weeks away.
Update to thread: I should have the "Test Mule" plinth ready by Saturday. This build has proven to be rather detailed and tedious to implement.
-Steve
BenY:
I had thought that a small dab of adhesive might hold the cap in place regardless of how snug it might snap over the knob end of the bearing shaft.
I"ll know more once I finally remove the thrust cap from my unit. But that is a couple of weeks away.
Update to thread: I should have the "Test Mule" plinth ready by Saturday. This build has proven to be rather detailed and tedious to implement.
-Steve
Hi Rush.
I asked them to quote a price if they do a small batch. I guess I will get an indicaton when I pick up the cap.
I also like to make sure that the new cap actually works before checking interest for additional caps
I will keep you posted!
Nils
I emailed Dave Cawley at Sound Hi Fi dot com about the bearing cap.
He said they could sell a PTFE replacement for 25 and 10 shipping pounds sterling. That is $56 US dollars.
I would hope you could do a little better.
Rush
I eventually got the new thrust cap!
I received it already mounted on the spindle, so I do not know how the inside looks. It was apparently a little bit tricky to manufacture because the side wall dimensions of the cap were very small.
I think they got it right, becuase the size and press fit is fine. However I did not dare to try and take the cap off the spindle!
I have lubricated and then mounted the spindle into the bearing. It took the spindel more than one hour to settle!
I was a little bit worried because there was a small squeeking sound as the bearing settled. But once fully settled the squeeking disapeared.
I have had a quick spinn just to check that everything works. It seems good, and the bearing is quiet.
I will try more thoroughly tomorrow, since I now am going out for dinner.
By the way the cost for doing just this one thrust cap was 57 USD. I can get a price for running a batch if there is interest. However I want to check that it works alright Before. Other offer seems better at the moment
Regards
Nils
I received it already mounted on the spindle, so I do not know how the inside looks. It was apparently a little bit tricky to manufacture because the side wall dimensions of the cap were very small.
I think they got it right, becuase the size and press fit is fine. However I did not dare to try and take the cap off the spindle!
I have lubricated and then mounted the spindle into the bearing. It took the spindel more than one hour to settle!
I was a little bit worried because there was a small squeeking sound as the bearing settled. But once fully settled the squeeking disapeared.
I have had a quick spinn just to check that everything works. It seems good, and the bearing is quiet.
I will try more thoroughly tomorrow, since I now am going out for dinner.
By the way the cost for doing just this one thrust cap was 57 USD. I can get a price for running a batch if there is interest. However I want to check that it works alright Before. Other offer seems better at the moment
Regards
Nils
My SP10 is alive!
I managed to get it into the plinth and mounted a Rega arm with a Goldring pickup. I normally use a Moerch arm on it, but it is more work to set it up, so Rega was the quick option!
It was probably 5 years since I had it spinning last time, so obviously too long time to be able to make any comparisons. It sure has a solid base and portraits the details very good. It will be interesting to hear it with better arm and cartridge.
And the thrust cap? - Seems to work very well, it is very quiet!
I will open up the bearing next weekend to see if there is any wear.
Regards
Nils
I managed to get it into the plinth and mounted a Rega arm with a Goldring pickup. I normally use a Moerch arm on it, but it is more work to set it up, so Rega was the quick option!
It was probably 5 years since I had it spinning last time, so obviously too long time to be able to make any comparisons. It sure has a solid base and portraits the details very good. It will be interesting to hear it with better arm and cartridge.
And the thrust cap? - Seems to work very well, it is very quiet!
I will open up the bearing next weekend to see if there is any wear.
Regards
Nils
Good news re: thrust cap working well. That should present an audible improvement in sound over the previous condition. I wonder how many others out there have completely worn through to the steel. Did you check condition of the bearing ball? It should be simple to replace that with another of the same diameter. Boca Bearing online is convenient for bearing ball replacements. they have all sizes and tend to have many different materials and quality levels.
Yeah, the TT deserves a better arm and cart....but those cost money
re: my project. I'll post pics tomorrow. I have it up and spinning vinyl now.
-Steve
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.