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Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII
Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII
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Old 23rd April 2019, 08:31 AM   #2751
nigel pearson is offline nigel pearson  United Kingdom
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From the above I said I hate conceptual engineering. That wasn't the cracked glass bearing and that will remain a concept. It's the ones that take off the shelf parts for something else and sell them much as the cosmetics industries do. Conceptual engineering possibly is something different and respectable. It is used as a put down by friends. Conceptual being " conceptual " when said. Irony. " Oh no not more conceptual engineering ".
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Old 9th May 2019, 05:35 PM   #2752
triodesteve is offline triodesteve
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Default Slate?

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Originally Posted by kevinkr View Post
Don't make the mistake I did, and stay away from slate plinths. Paperstone, birch plywood, and panzerholz are what I am currently thinking about.
Maybe I missed this earlier. Care to expand? I thought slate was a great option.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:02 PM   #2753
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII
Plenty of mass but it is not the greatest when it comes to deadness or energy absorption and every arm (different cartridges) I have mounted directly on the plinth has had a common set of colorations, and in particular a strongly objectionable mid-range glare. I found some improvement with polymer damping materials like dynamat placed between the layers. (My plinths are 4 pieces of slate each.)

It's not as well damped as claimed, and as plinth materials go I think baltic birch works better. Lead shot in milled pockets in the plinth seems to work better, paperstone is better still in my limited experience.

Slate is really expensive as well, and can look quite nice, but the sound is offputting. I have a number of friends who had slate plinths and at this point all have moved away. I'm not a big fan of vinyl at this point and am spending the money on digital and tape, so I will live with these plinths until the next wave of enthusiasm strikes.
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Old 11th May 2019, 04:21 PM   #2754
triodesteve is offline triodesteve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkr View Post
Plenty of mass but it is not the greatest when it comes to deadness or energy absorption and every arm (different cartridges) I have mounted directly on the plinth has had a common set of colorations, and in particular a strongly objectionable mid-range glare. I found some improvement with polymer damping materials like dynamat placed between the layers. (My plinths are 4 pieces of slate each.)

It's not as well damped as claimed, and as plinth materials go I think baltic birch works better. Lead shot in milled pockets in the plinth seems to work better, paperstone is better still in my limited experience.

Slate is really expensive as well, and can look quite nice, but the sound is offputting. I have a number of friends who had slate plinths and at this point all have moved away. I'm not a big fan of vinyl at this point and am spending the money on digital and tape, so I will live with these plinths until the next wave of enthusiasm strikes.
Thanks for the feedback Kevin.
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Old 11th May 2019, 04:53 PM   #2755
WntrMute2 is offline WntrMute2  United States
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Originally Posted by kevinkr View Post
I'm not a big fan of vinyl at this point and am spending the money on digital and tape, so I will live with these plinths until the next wave of enthusiasm strikes.
So after 176 pages, you are giving up on vinyl. Too bad since you seem to have delved deep into getting the most out of vinyl.

Despite internet advice, I built my plinth out of 6 inches of granite. Sounds good to me but I've not compared plinths.
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Old 11th May 2019, 06:02 PM   #2756
WntrMute2 is offline WntrMute2  United States
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Old 11th May 2019, 09:29 PM   #2757
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII
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Originally Posted by WntrMute2 View Post
So after 176 pages, you are giving up on vinyl.

Of course he hasn't. Just found a new toy to distract himself with! Give it a year...
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Old 11th May 2019, 10:00 PM   #2758
Mark Tillotson is online now Mark Tillotson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkr View Post
Plenty of mass but it is not the greatest when it comes to deadness or energy absorption and every arm (different cartridges) I have mounted directly on the plinth has had a common set of colorations, and in particular a strongly objectionable mid-range glare. I found some improvement with polymer damping materials like dynamat placed between the layers. (My plinths are 4 pieces of slate each.)

My initial guess is you want a material that sounds dead when you hit it, and doesn't reflect sound much (sounds dead with you shout at it), so cork covered MDF might be good. And you can sandwich layers of MDF easily. Stone and metal ring like a bell, a clue there I think!


And a dust cover is going to reduce acoustic feedback direct to the arm. Think of a cartridge as a contact microphone attached to the tonearm, turning it into a microphone itself. Vibration isolation at the headshell is a thing, I suspect its quite effective if done properly (which is probably very difficult)


These things are probably easy to evaluate, you are just testing a microphone and trying to make it more deaf after all! (Well, except at the cantilever)


Just turn up the gain with stylus on stationary disc and start clapping and tapping around
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Old 14th May 2019, 12:53 AM   #2759
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII
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Originally Posted by WntrMute2 View Post
So after 176 pages, you are giving up on vinyl. Too bad since you seem to have delved deep into getting the most out of vinyl.

<snip>
Not exactly, as Bill (who knows me well) has pointed out. I am just taking a break from this particular area of this obsessive hobby to obsess obsessively over some other aspect of the hobby.

I will probably add some additional damping to those annoying slate plinths in the fall if not sooner.

And I am still intrigued with the strain gauge cartridges as well..

I also went to a Papst 3 phase motor on the older 124 with variable frequency 3 phase drive (modified Siemens Micromaster) - it's very good.

I do think vinyl is an inherently flawed medium, in fact that is true of all analog media and the interfaces between the analog and digital world as well. I still have a lot of vinyl that gives most digital a pretty good run for the money. I also have some digital that in some ways vinyl can't touch, but that's surprisingly rare.

Tape just introduces a new set of as yet unfamiliar virtues and vices. However, it can sound not just a little better than vinyl in my very limited experience, it's also stupid expensive. (The machines and the recorded media to play on them.)
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