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Old 9th December 2013, 08:30 AM   #611
berlinta is offline berlinta  Germany
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Sorry guys, didn't mean to come across as snarky. Just a little frustrated, as stated above...

Have fun,

Frank
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Old 9th December 2013, 10:04 AM   #612
walterwalter is offline walterwalter  Ukraine
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Despite I'm mostly ignored here, just hard to stay silent. According to many posts by Berlinta here, in different threads, he is not a person that would mislead, or make false statements. His design is not just a theoretical one. I'm pretty sure, that a lot of practical measurements were done with ready made arms, including supposed skating force and angular mistake. So it is better to keep sarcastic skepticism for designs such as 47LABS RS-1.
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Old 16th December 2013, 05:02 AM   #613
tnargs is offline tnargs  Australia
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So the Schröder LT has a horizontal effective mass that varies with tonearm position and is always more than the vertical? Also, the tangency force varies with groove modulation? Hmm...

I think I would like to see some proper independent measurements of its behaviour, static and dynamic....
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Old 16th December 2013, 05:31 AM   #614
Mark Kelly is offline Mark Kelly  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnargs View Post
Also, the tangency force varies with groove modulation?
What is that supposed to mean?
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Old 16th December 2013, 11:14 AM   #615
alighiszem is offline alighiszem  Hungary
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As you can see on the photos, the Schroeder arm does not differ from conventional pivoting arms in respect of the effective mass.
Concerning the skating force the following equation applies:
L1 x Ffr = L2 x -Fsk
Where Ffr is the friction force pulling the tonearm, and Fsk is the skating force.
L1 and L2 are on the drawing (the original was taken from the patent application).
When the lever and the tonearm are not perpendicular (as in reality), then the equation is more complicated, with some trigonometry.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Schroder forces.jpg (71.5 KB, 362 views)
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Old 16th December 2013, 02:30 PM   #616
berlinta is offline berlinta  Germany
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Hi,
Only some unipivot arms come close to equal eff. mass lateral plane vs. the vertical plane.
Even cardanic bearing(i.e. Triplanar, Alphason, Dual ULM, etc...) arms display a (minute and inconsequential) difference in this department.

"I think I would like to see some proper independent measurements of its behaviour, static and dynamic.... "

And why is that?

If you meant, "skating force varies with groove modulation"... this would be correct.

@ alighiszem: the drawing above just shows the elements from above. You must draw the previously voiced conclusions, I understand. But the drawing leaves out other factors(not elements)...

If I find the time(after x-mas), I will fabricate a little video and you can then tell me how it's done.

Btw, this isn't about teasing or playing hide and seek, but about keeping commercial copycats from exploiting the principle.

Cheers,

Frank
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Old 16th December 2013, 06:28 PM   #617
mcspack is offline mcspack  United States
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Hi Again,

I'm finally ready to begin a clone of this amazing design,Contrats Frank on your patent approval, it is this idea below that I am currently struggling with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by berlinta View Post
Hi alighiszem,

"The magnetic servo has a much greater steady error than an electronic servo would have".
Now where did you get that conclusion from? All forces involved are taking into account in this arm, incl. the varying "stiffness" of the magnetic linkage over its operating range.

Frank
So there is a varying stiffness with respect to the magnetic force applied over the arms movement? Hmmm. Guess I'll have to experiment. Does it get weaker or stronger?

MC
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Old 16th December 2013, 06:35 PM   #618
mcspack is offline mcspack  United States
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Also,

I wonder how would I repeat the experiments Frank mentions on my arm without access to a blank record? Would a mirror do?

thanks,

MC
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Old 16th December 2013, 06:45 PM   #619
berlinta is offline berlinta  Germany
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Hi MC,
Just envision pulling a magnet along a guide rail(parallel) vs. pulling it at a 90° angle...

Cheers,

Frank
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Old 16th December 2013, 08:38 PM   #620
berlinta is offline berlinta  Germany
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Don't use a mirror...

Google "records with a blank side" and you'll find many examples of "3-sided" records with one blank side or 45rpm "audiphile" records that have a blank side as well.

Best,

Frank
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