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Old 31st January 2019, 07:08 AM   #1981
lcsaszar is offline lcsaszar  Hungary
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Default Pantograph

Has the Pantograph principle ever been used for LT tonearms? I mean moving along a linear guiding rail copied to the radial travel of the stylus.
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Old 31st January 2019, 07:31 AM   #1982
nocdplz is offline nocdplz
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Interesting idea Icsaszar - but have you ever used one?
My 2 cents: the parallelogram copies, in small or large, what you draw with the pencil, the lines on which the tracking force is applied (multiplied or demultiplied according to the magnification ratio).
Here the force is exerted by the stylus, so - frictions apart - you may just have a small or large copy of his path: if instead you want that the stylus follows a line, the force must be applied on the guide line = that means to use a servo. And feedback?

carlo
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Old 31st January 2019, 08:09 AM   #1983
lcsaszar is offline lcsaszar  Hungary
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No, I've never created a tonearm, just an idea. I see the major problem is four bearings instead of one, and the vertical movement is not easily provided.
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Old 31st January 2019, 09:07 AM   #1984
nocdplz is offline nocdplz
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More than a problem of bearings, imho it's a problem of vectors: the stylus drag is orthogonal to the guide and therefore completely unusable - the side force breaks down according to the angles of the levers, so on guide point is available only a fraction.
But the idea merits to be further investigated
c
I meant a common drawing pantograph: the effort to make it work in magnification is so great that is normally used simply by reporting reference points
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Old 17th July 2019, 11:59 AM   #1985
Consty is offline Consty  Romania
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Default Klaudio tonearm FreeCAD model

For those interested in the Klaudio tonearm, I have created in FreeCAD 0.18 a functional model (attached). In order to see it at work, you must copy/paste the contents of the attached Kla_python.txt in FreeCAD's Python console.
Besides the ruby jewel bearings, the toughest challenge for a normal DIYer is machining the Gaussian bell shaped guide
But where there's a will, there's a way...
Attached Images
File Type: png Kla_screenshot.PNG (61.9 KB, 186 views)
Attached Files
File Type: zip KLA.zip (249.7 KB, 8 views)
File Type: txt Kla_python.txt (1.1 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by Consty; 17th July 2019 at 12:16 PM. Reason: Code correction
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Old 17th July 2019, 03:39 PM   #1986
directdriver is offline directdriver  United States
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Default Klaudio

Quote:
Originally Posted by diyrayk View Post
5-17-2018, 6:40PM Post#1773

I will put on my flame-proof suit and proclaim that all (with maybe one possible exception, the Klaudio) PLT tonearms will skate and, if a particular PLT doesn’t appear to exhibit skating tendencies, it’s likely because the linkage pivots are saddled with excessive friction. This is the bargain that you make with the devil when you go with a PLT design. I myself consider the negative side-effects of skating and bad bearings to be worse than tracking error.
Since Consty brought up the Klaudio tonearm, I was skeptical of it being skating free...

A recent video titled "Klaudio KD-ARM-xx10/12 Anti-Drifting Steps," shows that it can skate.

The video even says "light drifting of the headshell is acceptable" after showing steps of adjustment.
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:00 PM   #1987
Consty is offline Consty  Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by directdriver View Post
A recent video titled "Klaudio KD-ARM-xx10/12 Anti-Drifting Steps," shows that it can skate.
Dear directdriver, IMHO I can't see the tonearm skating. In fact I see it... anti-skating I mean its slight tendency to move from the label to the middle of the record, tamed after a proper setup of the parallelism of the two arms using that Allen key.
Since no Klaudio video shows us the needle running on a rotating grooveless record face, we cannot say whether this geometry exhibits skating or not.

Last edited by Consty; 17th July 2019 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:29 PM   #1988
directdriver is offline directdriver  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Consty View Post
Since no Klaudio video shows us the needle running on a rotating grooveless record face, we cannot say whether this geometry exhibits skating or not.
Since the arm is floating with zero tracking force, isn't that similar to playing it on a blank groove record? And if it's skating free, why would it drifts in the first place? Will this pass Ray's string test?

The fact that it has a tendency to drift without fine tuning, which seems to be a form of anti-skating or anti-anti-skating adjustment, suggests, at least to me, skating force exists. Maybe the drifting is caused by bearing friction or uneven tensioning of the dual pivots? The fact that it rests in the middle reminds me of the Thales Easy arm that the single tangential point is set in the middle groove so the arm gets to overhang on the outside groove and underhang on the inside groove.

I'll let the more perceptive members here to settle this one.

Last edited by directdriver; 17th July 2019 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:54 PM   #1989
Consty is offline Consty  Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by directdriver View Post
Since the arm is floating with zero tracking force, isn't that similar to playing it on a blank groove record?
Absolutely not. A tonearm balanced at zero VTF with zero anti-skating setting (if this setting exists in the makeup of the tonearm) should stay exactly where it's placed by hand, no matter if that place is near the record rim, the middle or at the runout groove.
The inward skating force appears as a result of the friction between the stylus and the surface it is running on, be it a record groove or a flat surface of a one sided record. That's why some purists in terms of anti-skating adjusting say that the flat record face test is not relevant enough due to the higher skating forces implied by the much higher friction faced by the stylus plowing the grooves. So, no needle contact = no skating
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Old 17th July 2019, 06:15 PM   #1990
directdriver is offline directdriver  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Consty View Post
The inward skating force appears as a result of the friction between the stylus and the surface it is running on, be it a record groove or a flat surface of a one sided record.
That drift appears when the arm is floating, meaning no contact between stylus and groove.
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