Troll comes to my mind.
Now where is that Tin of Spam smilie when you need it
Franks pick up arm should produce passion. But of this type ? Here is a question for you. How if you make this arm will you know if it is any good ? If you look at F1 cars they all look good. Looking good will not win a race. Don't try to pass it off or sell any. It is a protected design. Now if you sell a Uni-pivot version I suspect you would be safe. The FI thing is even closer in that many who do not win have 90 % of what they need to win. It's the knowhow they lack. Even the mighty Honda do not automatically win.
I like Troll. I am 6 foot 2 and 18 stone .
stereonomono: ADC - The Pritchard Pickup System
Just finished my MKII arm.
New:
- Arm rest
- Head shell
- CF tube
- Arm stand
New:
- Arm rest
- Head shell
- CF tube
- Arm stand
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Now you have something similar how could you make it your own ? A real Schroeder would not have the RCA phono out. I have to used the same cables as a Schroeder basic design for Rega RB300. I was shocked that much of the nasty Rega sound was not the bearings as I thought and was the cable. The two can be mixed up which logically is impossible.
One thing I never tried and you could is to put a surface mount op amp in the headshell. This would need a DC suppy. It would supply gain only without RIAA ( head amp ). This would reduce the resistance loss of the cables. This simple idea is something right up DIY Audio's street. It would also make the RCA plugs less of a problem. If a PU is 5 R and cables 1.5 R you can see the magnitude of the loss. The 5R if an inverting design can be part of the gain. 47 R if the op amp is only giving 30 mV might work. Remember op amps are looking to 7 Vrms to need 2 K loading. 1 op amp, 2 resistors SMD, 1 x 10 nF COG SMD decoupling.
One thing I never tried and you could is to put a surface mount op amp in the headshell. This would need a DC suppy. It would supply gain only without RIAA ( head amp ). This would reduce the resistance loss of the cables. This simple idea is something right up DIY Audio's street. It would also make the RCA plugs less of a problem. If a PU is 5 R and cables 1.5 R you can see the magnitude of the loss. The 5R if an inverting design can be part of the gain. 47 R if the op amp is only giving 30 mV might work. Remember op amps are looking to 7 Vrms to need 2 K loading. 1 op amp, 2 resistors SMD, 1 x 10 nF COG SMD decoupling.
I like what you did. The op amp would make it a virtue. As I said the cables when in a Rega arm did do magic. I try very hard not to beleive in this. My friends in Pro Audio laugh if I do, far worse than being a troll. By pure chance my cousin by marriage lived in the same village in Germany as the guy who made the cables. Alas he died. Anne is a tour guide of the vineyards for the religious order. I used to buy a hand full of cables when there.
You have made a problem, why not make it better? The big advantage of your problem is when made OK it might be of great advantage. If you take the gain problem of the op amp to it's logical end you have more output ( it could be 50 to 100 gain, that might be 70 mV which is like low line level ). You could be simplistic and say a turbo charger of sorts. A very poor analogy, but reasonable. Something for nothing. A Supercharger more to the point as the speed of the circuit is very fast. Any cable you own would then be usable from arm to phono stage. It could be 10 metres long and not be too bad as the op amp is a buffer. 10 cm of cable to a pick up is already too long. We all do it, does not make it right. If you don't understand op amps now might be a good time to learn? This is the Lego level of electronics so you can not fail.
In simpler words, no RCA's is best. There is no such thing as a good RCA. DIN is better and very cheap. The very cheap Rean RCA is not bad. RCA became popular as it was a very cheap way to do things. Like all things German the DIN has science behind it. Preh and Neutrik are very good.
I forgot to say. The 90% you can do is excellent. I am sorry it's a copy as it looks you have the skills to make it your own design. 10% is in Frank's head and you can never know that. He wouldn't say it so I shall.
In simpler words, no RCA's is best. There is no such thing as a good RCA. DIN is better and very cheap. The very cheap Rean RCA is not bad. RCA became popular as it was a very cheap way to do things. Like all things German the DIN has science behind it. Preh and Neutrik are very good.
I forgot to say. The 90% you can do is excellent. I am sorry it's a copy as it looks you have the skills to make it your own design. 10% is in Frank's head and you can never know that. He wouldn't say it so I shall.
Hi guys,
I said it before and I shall repeat myself here: Anyone building his or her version of a tonearm based on my design has any right to alter/change/omit/re-design whatever element they feel needs to be altered/changed/...
If you're happy with the outcome, I'd call it a success. I will support Nigel's claim that the last 10% of what accounts for the quality of the original will be VERY difficult to emulate. But that is beyond the point. DIYing can be about improving the state of the art by coming up with something new, possibly too expensive to produce as a commercial item, - or making something based on an existing design or principle that happens to be too expensive(for many to afford) in its commercial manifestation.
And it's about pride of making it YOURSELF.
2 comments regarding Zeonrider's implementation:
The COG of your arm assembly is way too low due to the pronounced eccentrically drilled counterweight. Any change in VTA will drastically change the VTF
Very nicely executed headshell plate, but - that fingerlift is a resonating tongue close to the exiter(the cartridge). Slide some silicon tubing over it and listen in comparison(easy to remove if you can't hear a difference).
@ Nigel:
The DCR of the wiring isn't the biggest problem(exept for carts with 0,8Ohm coils...). Capacitance/dielectric losses and mechanical exitation(wiring rubbing/rattling around inside the armwand) are(imho). In addition, most wiring types used in tonearms are too stiff.
A phono-eq built into a headshell, no thanks - unless you mechanically isolate the circuit board. Integrate it into the base of the arm: much better, as it will be behind the first vibration "barrier", namely the string.
See you in Munich, Nigel?
Have a great weekend,
Frank
I said it before and I shall repeat myself here: Anyone building his or her version of a tonearm based on my design has any right to alter/change/omit/re-design whatever element they feel needs to be altered/changed/...
If you're happy with the outcome, I'd call it a success. I will support Nigel's claim that the last 10% of what accounts for the quality of the original will be VERY difficult to emulate. But that is beyond the point. DIYing can be about improving the state of the art by coming up with something new, possibly too expensive to produce as a commercial item, - or making something based on an existing design or principle that happens to be too expensive(for many to afford) in its commercial manifestation.
And it's about pride of making it YOURSELF.
2 comments regarding Zeonrider's implementation:
The COG of your arm assembly is way too low due to the pronounced eccentrically drilled counterweight. Any change in VTA will drastically change the VTF
Very nicely executed headshell plate, but - that fingerlift is a resonating tongue close to the exiter(the cartridge). Slide some silicon tubing over it and listen in comparison(easy to remove if you can't hear a difference).
@ Nigel:
The DCR of the wiring isn't the biggest problem(exept for carts with 0,8Ohm coils...). Capacitance/dielectric losses and mechanical exitation(wiring rubbing/rattling around inside the armwand) are(imho). In addition, most wiring types used in tonearms are too stiff.
A phono-eq built into a headshell, no thanks - unless you mechanically isolate the circuit board. Integrate it into the base of the arm: much better, as it will be behind the first vibration "barrier", namely the string.
See you in Munich, Nigel?
Have a great weekend,
Frank
This is only a test counterweight. I have a new one.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi Frank. DCR. Yes. I have been working upwards from " age 13 " preamp designs. The sort of thing I would teach if a school physics master. It is an all in one design that could go in the headshell. As you can imagine it isn't very good. I am listening as I type. I tell a lie. If I heard it at someones house it would be very OK. The RIAA is 100 % ( really is ) as it should be and has a passive 2 uS correction filter ( Arm wire + 1.4 uF would do that ). So far the active chain ignoring house keeping devices is 3 transistors and has a realistic gain of 36 dB ideal and 50 dB usable ( Denon DL110 in use ). There are loads of transistors in the house keeping devices which can be regarded as resistors as transistor current sources are almost that linear. So I took an optimised Quad 33 circuit of 2 x BC109 to compare. It blew the op amp into non existance like your arm will others. This was a shock as on paper it is useless. BC109 might be BC859 these days in double SMD. EF86 of which I have nice types are too big. The op amp has 22K pull down resistor as a crude current source. That was prefered to a real current source of 2 mA ( JFET ).
I am going to try a TL072 as an old fashioned bootstrap into the 33 K Quad TR2 load ( 18 K + 15 K ). This wacky idea has great merit as it is almost infinite impedance into the TL072 and yet will reduce distortion by at a guess 15 dB. The transistor will think it is seeing >100 V B+ . Now, who did I copy to do that ? My own imagination. As far as I know this elephant has never been used before in this form. To compare I just switch it off. The TL072 has just B+ and 0 V, in and out. No resistor or capacitors. It will work to 3 MHz. It could be any op amp. OK a CCS can work. Problem is a CCS is not ideal at 12 V. 12 V is realistic as it has 100 mV to offer. The Quad has almost no hiss. At 0.6 nV per root Hz this is not surprising.
Looking at your arm there is an obvious way to change it that should work. No one has seen it and I am not saying. It is a heard of Elephants in the room. Someone was going to throw some Spam at me for stelling the thread ( not intended pun )! Now Frank why is it not you throwing Spam ? I wasn't doing that anyway. Opening the tin of Spam more like. It's unusual anyone chalenges me these days so I rather liked it. If at school I guess I would have been in detention for a month for what would have come next? That wasn't rare, as a farmer I was well able.
Bellafonte returns to Carenegie Hall bought in Baltimore for $6.65 as I type. I did $127 of retail therapy that day. Most from the scrap bin. Every one of the nearly 100 records worked out ! I was very drunk at the time. There was a kids TV show called Mr Benn in the UK. I must have walked into that shop. A Mono Sergent Pepper in the mix in perfect condition.
I am going to try a TL072 as an old fashioned bootstrap into the 33 K Quad TR2 load ( 18 K + 15 K ). This wacky idea has great merit as it is almost infinite impedance into the TL072 and yet will reduce distortion by at a guess 15 dB. The transistor will think it is seeing >100 V B+ . Now, who did I copy to do that ? My own imagination. As far as I know this elephant has never been used before in this form. To compare I just switch it off. The TL072 has just B+ and 0 V, in and out. No resistor or capacitors. It will work to 3 MHz. It could be any op amp. OK a CCS can work. Problem is a CCS is not ideal at 12 V. 12 V is realistic as it has 100 mV to offer. The Quad has almost no hiss. At 0.6 nV per root Hz this is not surprising.
Looking at your arm there is an obvious way to change it that should work. No one has seen it and I am not saying. It is a heard of Elephants in the room. Someone was going to throw some Spam at me for stelling the thread ( not intended pun )! Now Frank why is it not you throwing Spam ? I wasn't doing that anyway. Opening the tin of Spam more like. It's unusual anyone chalenges me these days so I rather liked it. If at school I guess I would have been in detention for a month for what would have come next? That wasn't rare, as a farmer I was well able.
Bellafonte returns to Carenegie Hall bought in Baltimore for $6.65 as I type. I did $127 of retail therapy that day. Most from the scrap bin. Every one of the nearly 100 records worked out ! I was very drunk at the time. There was a kids TV show called Mr Benn in the UK. I must have walked into that shop. A Mono Sergent Pepper in the mix in perfect condition.
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Hey Nigel,
I know you were not trying to hi-jack the thread, - but your initial posts could be mistaken for you telling people to work on something they might succeed at(a unipivot) instead of attempting "the impossible".
Lots of happy Schröder type armbuilders, so why question their abilities?
The RIAA unit you're describing deserves its own thread.
I tried two different headshell RIAAs on the headshell(as intended), then mechanically disconnected(aka "behind") the arm. Both were better overall when used separately. And one of them was even potted...
One should not underestimated the influence of microphony. On the other hand, - if the arm was built around such a device...
Back to the bench,
Frank
I know you were not trying to hi-jack the thread, - but your initial posts could be mistaken for you telling people to work on something they might succeed at(a unipivot) instead of attempting "the impossible".
Lots of happy Schröder type armbuilders, so why question their abilities?
The RIAA unit you're describing deserves its own thread.
I tried two different headshell RIAAs on the headshell(as intended), then mechanically disconnected(aka "behind") the arm. Both were better overall when used separately. And one of them was even potted...
One should not underestimated the influence of microphony. On the other hand, - if the arm was built around such a device...
Back to the bench,
Frank
Absolutely Frank.
Since I last wrote . I built a new version. The is DL110 doing the 75 uS itself. It sounds great. Not dark, harsh or lacking in depth.
It's the dreaded NE 5532 right now and it sounds very good ( 22K to - ve in class A , not 2 us as none needed ). The DL110 being 160R + 380 uH is happy to do it. For this thread that will do on RIAA. It sounds nothing like a NE 5532.
Since I last wrote . I built a new version. The is DL110 doing the 75 uS itself. It sounds great. Not dark, harsh or lacking in depth.
It's the dreaded NE 5532 right now and it sounds very good ( 22K to - ve in class A , not 2 us as none needed ). The DL110 being 160R + 380 uH is happy to do it. For this thread that will do on RIAA. It sounds nothing like a NE 5532.
Hello ,
i have made tonearm schroeder version, i don"t know what this is correctly.
i have problem about hold string in rod, i give hole 1 mm and to hold pressing with bolt , this bolt is function to attach with magnet.
my string dia 0.8 mm
last day i have already wiring and tested.
regards
ed
add:
setting part by part :
https://plus.google.com/photos/1046...859&sqsi=6b9ec799-5a4c-4755-a139-47755ce790dc
https://youtu.be/sElzdpnN55s
i have made tonearm schroeder version, i don"t know what this is correctly.
i have problem about hold string in rod, i give hole 1 mm and to hold pressing with bolt , this bolt is function to attach with magnet.
my string dia 0.8 mm
last day i have already wiring and tested.
regards
ed
add:
setting part by part :
https://plus.google.com/photos/1046...859&sqsi=6b9ec799-5a4c-4755-a139-47755ce790dc
https://youtu.be/sElzdpnN55s
Attachments
![20150217_085815[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/439/439637-9f611fdf50af3df2aae641570935495b.jpg)
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![20150301_163812[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/439/439661-a890740221145911a107c7abc22b0cf1.jpg)
![20150301_163832[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/439/439668-0791bd53fe9ff98c80bd87628c50cccd.jpg)
![20150301_163910[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/439/439675-612fb3f011748e1f3dc5ddce36948113.jpg)
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hi.
i have see your TA very very nice ...
is my string more large ? because i will fitting to hole.
if to large what happen Zeon?
regards
ed